Egypt : Why do some of us claim to be Egyptians

Omowale Jabali

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The first black man and woman may have originated in Southern Africa, but the first black man and woman did not civilize the world. Unless, of course, you're looking at an ancient AFRICAN map of the world (charted before the word "Africa" came into existance, of course) where Egypt IS in "southern" Africa?

Can you prove this to me by showing me an ancient "African" map of the World?

Flip it how you chose but I'm talking about recent evidence in regards to stone monuments in and around Zimbabwe predating the ages of the Sphinx and the Giza complex.


As far as "civiling the world" is concerned that sounds like some garbage a European would spout.

Did "Egypt" "civilize" Kerma when it sacked it and burned it to the ground and crucified the Royal family of Kush under Ahmose and Kamose?


"Civilization" is a code word for imperialism and warfare, glorified.
 

Kadijah

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Can you prove this to me by showing me an ancient "African" map of the World?
I was shown such a map once. Sorry, however, that you cannot take on faith that Africans charted the world before Europeans came out of the caves.

Oh! The reason I recall it so vividly is that when shown the map, I exclaimed, "But it's upside down!" Europe was in the southern hemisphere, on the "bottom" of the map and Africa was located in the northern hemisphere, at the "top" of the map. The brutha who showed it to me smiled. He asked, "If your word was unchallenged and you ruled the world, would you draw a map positioning your kingdom on the bottom with other (non-existent or weaker) countries above you?

Flip it how you chose but I'm talking about recent evidence in regards to stone monuments in and around Zimbabwe predating the ages of the Sphinx and the Giza complex.
I'm not "flipping" anything, but "stone monuments" are/were erected everywhere. Unless you think Stone Henge means a "great" civilization once sat there.

As far as "civiling the world" is concerned that sounds like some garbage a European would spout.
How contemptuous of you. Must be wonderful to be so learned (the long nose is a tad too European for my tastes, however).

Did "Egypt" "civilize" Kerma when it sacked it and burned it to the ground and crucified the Royal family of Kush under Ahmose and Kamose?
I'm sorry, but when did talk of black people sacking and burning other black people enter the convo? Sounds like fodder for another thread IMO.

"Civilization" is a code word for imperialism and warfare, glorified.
If you say so.
 

Clyde C Coger Jr

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:)

Well, my brother and my sister, I take umbrage with your assessments of "The Destruction of Black Civilization." I have NEVER read a book that so stirred my blood, sent my imagination and the possibilities of my black life TODAY soaring. I would trade it for NO other book on the subject for it. It is not the "dry" history that we are accustomed to.... thank GOD! Any reader could sit down and curl up with this book for hours!

And come away wise. :thinking:


In the Spirit of Sankofa,




... Kadijah, the passion with which you pursuit learning our history is deeply admired and comes out in your persona as genuine; without a doubt. In this case however, I view Williams' Destruction of Black Civilization as a must read for the serious student, and the same applies to Dr. Ben's, Black Man of the Nile.

For most of us, both books were the very first ones to read, and both continue, as you say, to be loved to this very day. Notwithstanding, more information is available now than then, and must be taken into account. My interest here, is to encourage bro. Keita's desire to teach Williams' book, using largely the passion of your initial post.

Destruction of Black Civilization remains a very comprehensive work, which should be taught and updated, from my perspective.


Keita Kenyatta
Its my hope the person you quoted, Keita, initiates something we talked about recently, and becomes influence by your lines of reasoning below. Williams indeed gave us comprehensive details conducive for teaching.

Peace In,
Thank you so much. This is why I always say any study of Africa and her peoples should begin with Dr. Chancellor Williams' "The Destruction of Black Civilization." In it, he lays out the migrations of blacks from Egypt to the interior of Africa, and the reasons why.
No, lol, stop now Honey1201, excluding sisters from the dialog, seriously. We need the input of our sisters especially... Of course I know how you meant "carry on men folk" in gist:).

There's much to learn from Williams' early efforts, which has been alluded to by bro. omo; my point is that we, including Keita, realize this work needs explaining, in conjunction with newer evidences only some are familiar with.

Peace In my sister friend,


Peace In,
 

Kadijah

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In the Spirit of Sankofa,




... Kadijah, the passion with which you pursuit learning our history is deeply admired and comes out in your persona as genuine; without a doubt. In this case however, I view Williams' Destruction of Black Civilization as a must read for the serious student, and the same applies to Dr. Ben's, Black Man of the Nile.

For most of us, both books were the very first ones to read, and both continue, as you say, to be loved to this very day. Notwithstanding, more information is available now than then, and must be taken into account. My interest here, is to encourage bro. Keita's desire to teach Williams' book, using largely the passion of your initial post.

Destruction of Black Civilization remains a very comprehensive work, which should be taught and updated, from my perspective.










Peace In,


Thank you for your kind words (if not for blowing my "passionate" cover! :lol: ). While Dr. Chancellor Williams is at the head of my favorite black historians and I enjoy his writing style best (with the possible exception of C.L.R. James with his "The Black Jacobins" history of Haiti), I agree that there are most certainly other black scholars and historians we should seek out in our quest for OURstories. You mentioned Dr. Ben. I would add J. A. Roger, Drusilla Dunjee Houstom, John G. Jackson and of course, the uber-intellectual historian, Cheikh Anta Diop.



In addition, there's Ivan van Sertima, Runoko Rashidi, Dr. Richard King and one of the most revered of all, Dr. John Henrik Clarke.



We are blessed with great minds and as many as can be accessed, we should. Never just "one."
 

Clyde C Coger Jr

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Thank you for your kind words (if not for blowing my "passionate" cover! :lol: ). While Dr. Chancellor Williams is at the head of my favorite black historians and I enjoy his writing style best (with the possible exception of C.L.R. James with his "The Black Jacobins" history of Haiti), I agree that there are most certainly other black scholars and historians we should seek out in our quest for OURstories. You mentioned Dr. Ben. I would add J. A. Roger, Drusilla Dunjee Houstom, John G. Jackson and of course, the uber-intellectual historian, Cheikh Anta Diop.



In addition, there's Ivan van Sertima, Runoko Rashidi, Dr. Richard King and one of the most revered of all, Dr. John Henrik Clarke.



We are blessed with great minds and as many as can be accessed, we should. Never just "one."
yvw(you are very welcome)...

And guess what, lol, everyone here feels the same exact way... all of us are passionate about our plight and our delivery; and, I'd venture to say everyone of us are very familiar with all the scholars you've named. No kidding, lol. We have the Archives to prove there's no dearth of information complied over these last 15 years.

My goal is to leave the same legacy they've left for us, its the natural order of things. Like the mile relay, those before us have passed the baton, and someone has to anchor this bad boy, to the finish line ... we are still a Team in the process.


Peace In Kadijah, my sister friend,
 

Honey1201

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No "men folk" in this corner. But, as I just posted, I disagree with your assessment. I enjoyed the book immensely. As have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of others. There is a "reason" it is so widely quoted.

@ anyone who has not read "The Destruction of Black Civilization"

Get it. Read it. Then come back and bless me for leading you to it. :love:
Oh..I see. You're just looking for love and acknowledgment.. Well hell why didn't you just say so?!
We could of stopped this 5 pages ago!:winner::blowkiss::hearts1:!!!
All that is FOR YOU!!! The smartest woman on this site!!! :10500:
 

asmith161718

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This site offers some DNS evidence.


http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/


by Robert Lindsay | May 5, 2009 · 2:02 AM
East Midlands Dialect of English

I just heard the parents of Madeline McCann, a little girl who tragically vanished, apparently while her parents were vacationing in Portugal, a couple of years ago, on Oprah . It looks to be an abduction by a child molester or a sexual psychopath of some sort. This case is weird as Hell, and I remember at the beginning they were suspecting the parents.
Madeline and apparently her parents both come from around the city of Leicester in Leicestershire, in East Midlands, in the center of England. I always thought that the North English accents like Geordie and Scouse in Liverpool were the only ones that were hard to hear.
But I had the damndest time making sense out of that hardcore East Midlands dialect! If they were right in the room with me, maybe I could make sense of it, but on TV, it was hard as Hell. I was definitely getting less than 90% of it. As far as I can tell, it’s a damned foreign language. And it’s right smack in the middle of England. What the heck?
Man, that’s one hardcore English accent.
A great site is the BBC’s Sounds Familiar, with selections of hardcore dialects from all over the UK. The site has a poor layout and it’s hard to find the dialect samples, but if you click around a bit, they should show up.
Even in England, many of the dialect samples had poor intelligibility to my ear. What’s interesting is that I lived in a tourist town for many years and we always had English tourists coming through from all parts of England, and I never had a hard time hearing any of them. Is it that the folks speaking the real hardcore dialects are poor, older or working class and do not have the means to take trans-Atlantic trips?
You want to know why I watch Oprah? It’s about the only show I watch on US TV. Oprah is the essence of modern-day America, right? Of course it is.
Update: A commenter says that neither parent has a Leicestershire accent. The father has a Scottish English accent and the mother has a bit of a Scouse accent. That makes sense then. I can understand most British accents, but Scouse, Scottish English and Geordie just kill me. And forget Scots. That’s a foreign language.

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Filed under Britain, Dialectology, Europe, Linguistics, Regional

by Robert Lindsay | · 12:12 AM
The Birth of the Caucasian Race


An early European, possibly of the M173 line. He may somewhat resemble a Khoisan or Bushman.
A reconstruction of a very early European, based on fragments found in caves in the Carpathian Mountains of Romania from 2002 on, offers a tantalizing glimpse at what early Europeans must have looked like.
He actually looks a bit like Richard Steele, boxing referee and possible throwback.
Previously, the oldest European skull was 30,000 years ago and was said to look like a modern European, with closest affinities to Finns.
As you can see, the White nationalists are furious about this. White nationalism has always opposed the Out of Africa theory, now accepted as the Gold Standard by nearly all of anthropology. It’s just too offensive to imagine that Grandpa may have been a *******.
Yet obviously he was.
The “White European” phenotype as we know it today did not come into existence until after 12,000 years ago, or maybe sooner.
Before that, European Caucasians resemble Arabs. For instance, A 24,000 year old Cro-Magnon European shows DNA similarities to Near East (Arabs or the Caucasus). A 23,000 year old Italian Cro Magnon sample genetically resembles modern Middle Easterners from Palestine, Syria, Yemen and Iran.
It’s time for WN’s to quit claiming Cro-Magnon as The Original White Man. Forget it! He was a Middle Easterner – an Arab – Iranian type. As almost all WN’s say that Arabs are not White, and many, even more bizarrely, state that Iranians are not White (genetically, Iranians look like British, Danes and Norwegians), WN’s need to quit claiming Cro-Magnon as some Super White Cave Man.
The original proto-Asians came out of Africa 65,000 years ago, probably descendants of the M168 line, although NE Asians are probably partly M89.
The original Caucasians did indeed come out of Africa about 40-45,000 years ago, probably descendants of the M89 line. Whites and Caucasians in general are probably a legacy of M89 and not M168.
M89 birthed M45, which are the proto-Amerindians of 35,000 years ago on the steppes and in the Mongolia-Siberia region. A child of M45, M173, were the first Europeans, and may be represented by this fellow. Later, M343, the real Cro-Magnon, appeared. It is a bit confusing whether Cro-Magnon is M173 or M343 or both.
The early genesis of the Caucasoid race involved a large injection of Asian genes from Mongolia, Siberia and East Turkestan. This occurred about 40-45,000 years and represents about 2/3 of the proto-Caucasian genetic line (Bowcock 1991). These proto-East Asians probably looked something like Aborigines or possibly Ainu. Modern NE Asians do not appear until about 9,000 years ago.
Before that, all Asians looked like Aborigines, Melanesians, or Ainus. As noted above, the modern European phenotype also only appears 10,000 years ago. So both modern Whites and modern East Asians only go back 10,000 years, to the Last Glacial Maximum. All humans had dark skin until 10,000 years ago. What birthed light skin? The glaciers.
For an analysis of this early process, which injected a lot of proto-Asian genes into the Northern European Cro-Magnon line, see this early discussion on my now-banned blog:
Based on y-chromosome lineages, Atlantic and north European men (Cro-Magnon descendants) are related to N.E Asian men.​
They all descend from haplogroup Q which arose in the north Himalayas and south Siberia 45,000 years ago, with one group branching off west eventually ending up in the Pyrenees, the Caspian sea and northern Scandinavia. The other group would go across east Asia and even to the Americas.​
Indeed, there were movements in the other direction too – from Northern Europe back to Siberia. An ancient line of Europeans called Orcadians (named after barren islands in the north of Scotland) went back to Siberia at some point and contributed significantly to the genetic line of the Yakut, a Siberian grouping that is now only 6% Caucasian. The Yakut as ancient Scotlanders? Incredible.
The other 1/3 of the line was an early African (Bowcock 1991), possibly a Khoisan or Bushman type, but maybe a proto-Caucasian African out of South Africa (see below). Out of the proto-African and proto-Asian mixture was birthed the proto-Caucasian.
The African phenotype was Bushman or Hottentot or S African proto-Caucasoid, not Bantuoid, because modern Blacks do not appear in Africa until about 12,000 years ago. Before that, all African look like Pygmies or Bushmen.
I have always wondered what these folks looked like, and this is an interesting part of our heritage.
 
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