Black People : Who Is Black?

Sekhemu

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Sun Ship said:
We need to understand semiotics, semantics and symbolism as we delve into this subject of Blackness. There is also etymology as compare to folk etymology. Also annotation, cultural exegesis and interpretive colloquialisms should also be considered. And metaphysics and spiritually may not be far behind.

We were supposed to have embraced, venerated and reinvigorated this word Black, years ago. This is not an African term or a term invented by African people. Slave traders once used this term black and black at one time was a hue removed from the palettes of European artist, for it was not considered a valid or affective color.

Why aren’t white people debating the color white or the term European? Who really came from the Caucasus Mountains? And was America really named after Amerigo Vespucci? Why aren’t we debating these things?

How can the people who created mathematics, philosophy and religion be debating who is black or what the word Black (in the year 2004) mean to them?

This is a really silly and retrogressive thread.

Peace


Precisely brotha, Maybe we need to be elaborating on the Black Dot
 

AfriKing

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"....lol, yea, regardless of how much "other" ancestry they have, right..??....African blood was looked at as a virus to the European man, therefore he initiated the "one-drop rule".....like I said, it's merely social."

Did I say I supported the one drop rule. What part of being primarily African descended making you Black do you not get, it doesn't discount any White/Native American ancestry, saying you're PURE Black would do that, it simply means someone is mostly of African descent,use that arguement when we're debating on whether mixed, half Black/ half White people directly should be considered just Black. The one drop rule is incorrect. People can debate on anything including who's American? Whos this whos' that, it doesn't mean it isn't valid. It's not that out there, Black means of African descent, so there's no debating "Are Chinese people Black" "are Korean people Black", mixed people are both Black and___________, the answer to to 'should mixed people be consider Black' is the logical one, you are what you are, they're mixed Black and ______.

"and many Afroamericans may have more European ancestry than African..what does that say about the common descent you speak of...??"

This is a TIRED arguement I have to address on EVERY single "AA or Black" thread where there is someone who is bound to argue "I'm too mixed to be AA". Is it really this difficult?Of all the counter points, this is the pathetic one you choose? Why do grown people think like little children?Why is it always the same cliche, idiot arguements? The 'common descent' I speak of is what puts the AFRO in AFROAMERICAN. Black Americans are Black because they are of African descent.What makes them "Afro American" and not one of their European ancestors? I never said anything about being PURE BLACK. If one parent is Black and the other is White you are half-Black, half-White, if you are 7/8th Black and 1/8th White, you are Black with some White ancestry. If any AfroAmerican has more Euro ancestry then African, then he's not just AfroAmerican. That ******* complicated, huh? Why is he considered Black if he has more White ancestry then Black? Wtf? U'r serious? The **** people say sometimes, I swear....?!? But most AA's are primarily European descended you're right, what distinguishes them from 'White Americans' I have no idea.

"....no it's not..lol....in American society, "black" is generally anyone with a recent dosage of the supposed virus which is African blood......however, the definition of "black" varies from country to country, society to society....the value of the speed of light does not vary from society to society, for it is science; but "black"/"white" varies because it is a social construct."

The only thing they differ on it the one drop rule or not.

"...how else can both of these people be "black" other than by non-scientific socialism..??...labeling both these people simply as "black" is not science, but merely social perception:

Sudanese Dinka
Afroamerican "

Simple. Lena Horne is not pure African descended and the Southern Sudanese is. Southern Sudanese people tend to be very darker then other African people, so of course you can pull "wow, look at the contrast". Race doesn't exist. Race is a social concept. race this, Black that, the FACT remains that what those two people have in common is AFRICAN ANCESTRY, Lena Horne just has non-African ancestry in addion to African, and that's why they look different. Humans beings look different and we're still human beings.

"....true science is defiantly more complicated than "physical features and common descent" -- that's why "black" is merely social......"

What you can't get through your thick head is that I don't CARE about semantics like 'race', I will use it to refer to people who share physical features as a result of having common descent, yes 'the common descent I speak of', the reason why Wesley Snipes can go to Ghana and if he wasn't famous people wouldn't know he was American, why, because he's PRIMARILY West African descended. Fine, Black is a social contruct!! Just like religion, culture, nationality etc. Black simply refers to people who are of African descent, phenotype only identifies us as being of African descent. Whose arguing genotype?
 

define

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Aug 13, 2004
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Sun Ship said:
We need to understand semiotics, semantics and symbolism as we delve into this subject of Blackness. There is also etymology as compare to folk etymology. Also annotation, cultural exegesis and interpretive colloquialisms should also be considered. And metaphysics and spiritually may not be far behind.

We were supposed to have embraced, venerated and reinvigorated this word Black, years ago. This is not an African term or a term invented by African people. Slave traders once used this term black and black at one time was a hue removed from the palettes of European artist, for it was not considered a valid or affective color.

Why aren’t white people debating the color white or the term European? Who really came from the Caucasus Mountains? And was America really named after Amerigo Vespucci? Why aren’t we debating these things?

How can the people who created mathematics, philosophy and religion be debating who is black or what the word Black (in the year 2004) mean to them?

This is a really silly and retrogressive thread.

Peace



I am agree with you, but I disagree that this is a "silly and retrogressive thread." How so! When people still define and defend this term "black?" If it was so silly and obsolete, then people would not be debating this issue.


Oh and to add, whites were debating the term of what White was, thus the creation of the one drop rule and classifying Blacks as 3/5th of a person, mixed-people being classified as Black to uphold slavery, segregation laws not allowing Plessy (a 7/8th person with White blood) be accepted as a White man. The debated who to classify as White and what exactly White was.
 

DreamFunk

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May 27, 2003
320
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Memphis10/ VA
Sun Ship said:
Why aren’t white people...
....gosh, stop worrying about "white" people so much....did massa do such a good job that we still look at him before we lift a finger...can we not think for ourselves..???....forget about what "white" people are doing.


Sun Ship said:
How can the people who created mathematics, philosophy and religion be debating who is black or what the word Black (in the year 2004) mean to them?

...????....who "created" mathematics, philosophy and religion...???....certainly no one living on this earth today, and I only "claim" what I had my own hand in...no one breathing today had anything to do with what happened 6000 years ago......and no single people "created" any of these things..these things could be found all over the globe by various populations.....you're sounding no different than the crack-pot Eurocentrist that tries to claim everything.
 

DreamFunk

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May 27, 2003
320
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Memphis10/ VA
AfriKing said:
Did I say I supported the one drop rule. What part of being primarily African descended making you Black do you not get, it doesn't discount any White/Native American ancestry, saying you're PURE Black would do that, it simply means someone is mostly of African descent...
...what don't you understand about that concept being merely social..???

...there was a saying back in the early days of America that went something like, "It takes a little African blood to make one Black, and a lot more Indian blood to make one Indian"...they could have continued by saying 'and you must be pure European to be White"....but anyway, this frame of thinking isn't the result of science, it is simply the mind-frame of the European man that viewed Indian blood as bad, and African blood as the most loathsome thing on earth....and here you are 300 years later, still preaching massa's word as if it is unquestionable truth.


AfriKing said:
People can debate on anything including who's American?
...of course...."American" is a social constuct just as "black" is...one man may say an "American" is a person whos ancestors have been in this country for generations, and the next man may say that an "American" is simply a person that holds a legal citizenship...nothing but a matter of ones social perception.

...but "American" doesn't try to masquerade around as if it is science; however, "black" does, and that lie must stop.

...science is systematic, and for the most part consistant, "black" is not.


AfriKing said:
Black Americans are Black because they are of African descent.
....lol, and many are also of European and Native descent..some even have less African ancestry than another ancestry, yet they are still considered "Black".....what is so hard for you to understand that this is merly a social construct.


AfriKing said:
What makes them "Afro American" and not one of their European ancestors?
...the "afro" in them was a virus to their European ancestors, therefore, the Europeans initiated the social contruct that you are currently trying to preach as unquestionable truth.



AfriKing said:
If any AfroAmerican has more Euro ancestry then African, then he's not just AfroAmerican. That ******* complicated, huh?
....no it's is not that complicated....'Afroamerican' is ethnicity --->> culture, family, common history, shared interests, etc etc etc......in appearance, many Afroamericans are closer to their European ancestors than their West African ones, but does this fact alone make them any "less" Afroamerican...???....of course not.

...and btw, are you an Afroamerican...???


AfriKing said:
Why is he considered Black if he has more White ancestry then Black? Wtf? U'r serious? The **** people say sometimes, I swear....?!?
....I have already told you the answer to that...it's because it is social, and the social constructs of man can be very illogical -- "blacks" were at one point not even considered 100% human...is that too science..??


AfriKing said:
Simple. Lena Horne is not pure African descended and the Southern Sudanese is. Southern Sudanese people tend to be very darker then other African people, so of course you can pull "wow, look at the contrast". Race doesn't exist. Race is a social concept. race this, Black that,
...like I've already said, there are indeed differences in human populations that can be classified as "race", but black & white is not it.....black & white are merely social, and not scientific.....this is not difficult at all.


AfriKing said:
....the FACT remains that what those two people have in common is AFRICAN ANCESTRY, Lena Horne just has non-African ancestry in addion to African, and that's why they look different.
....lol, and all three of these people have common EUROPEAN ANCESTRY, Colin Powell just has non-European ancestry in addition to European:

http://www.dittomom.com/dittomom/images/bushpittsburgh10262000.jpg

...Powell resembles those guys more than he does


AfriKing said:
Humans beings look different and we're still human beings.
....well why even promote this "black"/"white" stuff and all be "human beings" then...???


AfriKing said:
Fine, Black is a social contruct!!
...exactly, that's the whole point of this....black/white is the silly social construct of our ancestors slavers.
 

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