Libya : The United States of Africa with Libya's Khadafy as president


Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
And yes, we can beat them at their own game, blacks were conducting business long before whites.

It is the reason for their refusal to give us a fair go for self determination and independence even within their own system and to negatively convince us [via the media] otherwise.

You often hear them complaining about sports [NBA, European soccer etc] being over run with blacks, that we should not be allowed into coaching positions or into key areas within the business of sports administration in case we begin to control those areas as well.

Neither would they have been so concerned about M.L.King who believed we should live together, still they feared him enough to deem it necessary to kill him.

At the end of the day, 'their game' is quite simple, to favour their I said, something we are passionately encouraged against.


Sun Ship

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2003
Every break starts with a crack.

Peace family,

Before I began, let me recognize the vigorous intellectual tenacity of brother uzoka, the studious reflections of Chukwuemeka and the always amalgamating responses and powerful insight of Sister NNQueen :bowdown:. And I’m still patiently waiting for more African-centered thoughts and profound scholarship from the originator of this thread, our brother panafrica.

I hope Brother panafrica hasn’t abandoned this discussion and started on a unification of African states without us! :lol: :lol:

At some point in these discussions there’s always a yearning to start blowing dust off of books, to began rambling through documents and cruising the web to re-enforce my comments with sources, but that insidious enemy called “time” sometimes hinders a thorough under-girding of one’s comments. Nevertheless, let me comment, in light of what’s been said.

First of all, in regards to Chukwuemeka comments about those who may choose scientific disciplines, such as anthropology or choose ambiguous majors, such as the classical arts; Well, I don’t readily know, how to insert the classical arts into the primary efforts of “nation building”, but anthropology, along with other scholarly interest may have their usefulness, especially, if that’s what a “nation builder” has to offer.

I agree with most of Chukwuemeka comments and I stand by what I said in the previous post, but I try, to always remain flexible, and not dogmatic in my opinions and suggestions. If black anthropologist are concentrating on or assisting in the conservation and rediscovery of important African/African American cultural norms, social habits and philosophical traditions that may help develop a uniquely independent African-centered society than their involvement is respected by the credibility of their works.

Or let give me give another example of how this should work. The distinguished MIT professor Noam Chomsky, one of the great minds of modern social activism, was once asked, how did his world renowned expertise in linguistics add to his prowess as an social activist. And to the questioner’s amazement, he said, (not quoting him) that one had nothing to do with the other, for, as far as, his concerns about the socio-political injustices of the world, he equated his investigative knowledge and understandings about corrupt imperialist governments, with anybody else’s insight, who basically gave a d-a-mn.

I would like to quickly, explore the comments of brother uzoka, in reference to his observations about media imagery. It’s impossible to disagree with what’s been said, about the counter-productive acts of condescending buffoonery by stereotypical caricatures of Black people. This garbage historically displayed by the film and television industries has been exploited and exported worldwide. But lets take a closer look at the broader subject, concerning Black people and the mass media.

First of all let me recognize the works of a few Black people that have try to bring attention to this subject. One being, professor Stuart Hall in England, who has produced video commentaries, including lectures exploring this subject, and of course, the popular satirical works of Robert Townsend (Hollywood Shuffle) and Spike Lee (Bamboozle).

The problem with combating the visual onslaught of the mass media is in the inference of the name itself, “MASS” media. In a previous post, you mentioned the Cosby Show; though it was a very successful and well-done non-blaxploitative sitcom, it also, to some degree, was still problematic; like Amos and Andy, the Flip Wilson show, Good Times, The Jefferson and Sanford ‘n Son, black leading roles and black life was still being, only highlighted in and/or relegated to a variety show and sitcom venue. The Cosby show, unwittingly, implied that only privileged and highly educated black people could talk properly, act sensibly, appreciate the cultural arts and had the wherewithal to tactically achieve higher goals. But in all fairness, it was unequivocally, an excellent “sitcom” and a success.

As far as the mass media and the wholesaling of public imagery we have to examine the more important levels, of production and distribution, and the amount of involvement, influence and control we have in those areas.

Do you remember when Bill Cosby attempted, along with other investors, to purchase NBC and as word has it, though he exceeded the financial barriers, he was still turned down.

“Too much power for one Black man to have?”

We don’t even start to understand the complexities involved in media control. When the camera turns around, be it, the most creative and positive Black movie or the most anti-social, gangsta’, big-money video, usually over 90% of the technical crew is WHITE.

This is all about banks and investors, bonding and insurances, technicians and equipment leasing, ALL BEING LED BY PRODUCTION STUDIOS, TRADE GUILDS AND UNIONS.

Who really controls the distribution, promotion and syndication of Black media images?

Now I’m not a pessimist when it comes to the future possibility of Black people making dents in the media grid, but we need to start taking more advantage of alternative technologies and formats, along with having a good understanding of the managerial infrastructure of documentary film-making and commercial cinematography.

The 35 mm film-like clarity and resolution that is being realized in high quality digital imagery is having, a lower-cost liberating affect on the more creative and independent film world. Desktop and handheld computing technology has replaced and/or competitively thwarted the exclusivity of a tyrannical film/TV world, controlled by million-dollar production studios. The list of reachable low-cost production software and digital hardware is endless.

Most people don’t even understand the power they have at their fingertips via their desktops.

Just to show you the power of the CPU. Do you know that even the PS 2 game console was prevented from export to certain countries, because the processing power of the internal computing components are on par with computers capable of powering sophisticated missile systems?

Once again we have to think out of the box. There are obscure trade magazines and journals that focus on each peculiar area of the television, film and movie industry, and usually through these publications you will be able to access even more specific equipment and knowledge.


In response to sister NNQueen, I recently did some web searching about dual citizenship and African countries. It seems Nigeria and Ghana has instituted dual citizenships laws in the last couple of years, with Ghana seemingly trying to amend its law, for more flexibility. Since I’ve only read a synopsis of these laws, which may probably have to be analyzed in juncture with the U.S. requirements for dual citizenship, I cannot comment on all of their bureaucratic and legalistic complexities. But instead of opinionating on their relevance, in light of our discussion, I need to take some time to sort out the content and invite I everyone else contributing to this subject to do the same. Here’s a news link below:

Now most conversations I’ve had over the years concerning this topic, especially with those who have visited the continent on a regular basis, Ghana has constantly been praised, for its stability and progressiveness (in comparison to many other African states). But of course before entertaining any idea, as involved, as a popular Pan African movement towards the attainment of dual citizenship for Diasporic Africans, I think very intense exploratory research and study is needed. Also there has to be a progressive educational movement in Ghana (or any particular nation-state) that could galvanize, the type of popular consensus needed to welcome a respectful, fluid and productive relationship with Africans in the diaspora; also a new found dialogue and debate with our Ghanaian (or others) brothers, focusing on the pros and cons, of such a movement. There almost need to be an African Law of Return, as there is for Jews in Israel. This shouldn’t be confused as just a “back to Africa” movement, but a project that promotes and reconstitute the ancient/historical universality of African people.

Also sister Queenie, I totally agree that PhD’s shouldn’t be excluded in a functional construct fostering the rebirth of a universal African-centered society. I am not an exclusionist. But I don’t remember the “so-called” Black doctoral intellectual community sending out open invitations to their grassroots/street-corner intellectual counterparts, when its time for discourse and debate on African/African American unity and progress, in the halls of Ivy.

I think Brother Malcolm, Dr. John Hendrik Clarke and many other brilliant black minds have proved that you don’t have to wait for the doors of Harvard or Yale, or even Howard, to open before you start the development of your intellectual genius or social advocacy.

The Black intellegensia, as a collective entity, has historically always been “a day late and a dollar short”, when it has come to the support of grassroots movements, African American cultural survival and our particular scientific/technological needs;

I’ll never forget how Malcolm mesmerized the minds of Oxford or Sister Souljah, on a national talk show, dumbfounding a stage full of so-called Black (male) intellectuals, leaving them speechless.


I will like to stop here and energize any other future comments, on these subjects, with the input of others.


Sun Ship


Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
Another enthralling post Sunship and while I do not want to draw this out any further seeing as everyone will have, and is entitled to their point of view and I have said this a number of times, we still come back to the subject of the mind and morale, which is what I'm trying to get at and change/affect.

This has turned out [for me] to be less about uniting African states [although as I have said, the plan would logically reach Africa at some point] than working to uplift black morale and confidence on a mass scale which is sorely lacking.

Before any action there must be thought, and when you study the statistics for instance, which have come about as a result of action and therefore its precursor, thought --where crime, prison, illiteracy, unemployment, etc are concerned --you can see that in general, black thinking [not just in America but the UK, Europe] is completely and habitually negative, defeatist and self destructive and is also suffering from 'acute assimilation syndrome'.

Yes, we could manufacture this and that, buy hammer, seeds, etc and innovate, but blacks as a whole...are not doing this, not even close, not enough of us are at any rate and we need more hands to the pump.

You touched on the use of computers, not everyone has access to a computer and therefore the internet and most are even less interested in buying magazines about the internet or film making, or contributing toward any grassroots group progress or learning a skill with that in mind.

Blacks don't have to produce these things from scratch, they are and have been already in existence for decades [film and computer magazines], yet today we are going to prison in droves and are no better off than we were 100 YEARS AGO [relatively speaking] and the signs are that we are getting worse, but the vast majority of people watch television and as pointed out in the thread, "Jewish Stranglehold In The Media" in the 'open forum', they are heavily influenced by it.

Once those who have the knowledge and skill to come up with, to use your example, a film documenting black progressivenss in some particular area, do so...then you need a black centred outlet for its widespread dissemination, as opposed to just throwing it out over the net where as I said, only a relative few will see and absorb it, probably the same people who come to places like this forum and already are willing to work for black prosperity and freedom.

If they're not willing to let a black man buy a TV network then I doubt they'll be willing to buy anything truly African centred to broadcast, maybe here and there but not enough in my opinion.

Buying an already existing televsion network from white owners is one thing, yes very likely they would say no...too much power for one black man to have, as you said, which also gives you an idea of what their thoughts and therefore [if history is anything to go by] actions would most likely be in the event that one African state became stable enough for some real progress to occur, in case it catches on, seeing as Africa [amongst others...S.America, M.East] is what makes them great.

They've been destabilising African states for 50 years unhindered because blacks have no power within the economy and therefore politics [well we could but we do not use it or focus it in our favour, the media is a factor behind this tendency], doubt they'd stop just because you planted some corn and began harnessing wind/sun power or began utilising water recycling technology.

You need power in these oppressive western nations [which I think is the first part of the diaspora's part in this] so that they have to think twice and give Africa time to do what has to be done, in the same way that the Japanese attacked the US Navy fleet at Pearl Harbour in 1940, order to incapacitate it and buy the Japanese enough time to complete it attacks within the Pacific and appropriate the materials needed for its war with the US.

Much in the same say that Jews used what economic influence they had in penetrating politics within the US in order to further their own ends as regards Zionist Israel.

Right now, African countries aren't even close to having the ability for national/state defense.

I'm talking about creating your own from scratch...without white interference, using black know-how in the various spheres needed to make it work, to show others how to go about using their own skills in various fields to work in the group's long term interests and to create a psychological buffer to help soften the blow the mainstream media [televsion] deals blacks on a daily basis.

We have a television station called 'Channel 31' in Australia for people from Lebanon [I think]and that is all they use, amateur film makers, cheaply put together studios that double up as community halls, business advertising, consisting of a white screen and black text, that kind of thing, for example, a film following one man, woman or family's business and how they used the proceeds to send home so that their extended family could improve their circumstances in some way etc.

It keeps them psychologically set and cohesive as a community of focused people and provides widely available access to accurate reliable links to their homeland, and what others within the 'team' are doing.

I still believe I am right in working toward this, if I have to stand alone in making it a reality then I won't be in such bad company hehe.

But as always, I'm learning a lot from you on the whole and it is helping me refine my ideas [you remind me of someone I have read elsewhere] but I believe we will have to agree to disagree on some points.


Sun Ship

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2003
Same story, different interpretations.

Peace Brother uzoka,

I wish I could give a better response to your post, but I’m in a time-crunch (lol). Quickly; about the film industry magazine at black book stores, statement, or any constructive literature; I was not talking about “new” black publications, but the lack of black book stores selling material that directly affect change, in these areas, regardless of who published the material (black or white). I could list hundreds of areas of interest. Black book stores don’t have to sell only, “black authored books and black published magazines”.

I am trying to extinguish the apathy in our people. And, this probably is not a message that can affect masses of Black people overnight, but to those who need a pep talk from “another brother”; for I believe some of our ideas, may become doable.

We need our own brand of “guerilla economics” and industry.

Hope I made some sense, for I’m trying to respond on the fly.


Sun Ship
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