Nigeria : Nigerians

Riada

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May 14, 2005
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Destee said:
No Sister, i'm not saying all of that. We must be responsible for our actions, and not continue to perpetuate what is being done to us.

But when i hear you speaking so negatively regarding an entire group of our people ... all victims of white supremacy ... makes it appear as though you are not considering the overwhelming influence that white supremacy plays in this picture.
We don't have to go to Nigeria, to point out where Black people need to do better. We can go to most any place that Black people are allowed to congregate, and see us doing virtually the same. Not only in Nigeria, but where ever we are ... you will find lots of the worst of everything.

None of this is by accident, as it is global. Where ever you find us, you find us mistreating each other. We manifest the weapons of mass destruction put upon us, very well. We are victims, and so, we act like victims. The only way not to be a victim, living under a universal system of white supremacy, is to be white ... or replace that system with a system of justice.

If pointing fingers at each other were the answer, then surely we would have cleaned up our own back yard by now, and Nigeria, or any other place in the world would welcome our critique, for we would also be bringing with us answers ... but we have no answers ... for we have not solved the problem in our own backyard. The problem is white supremacy (racism).

:heart:

Destee

Destee, I'm willing to accept what you're saying here as an "extenuating circumstance.", but I continue to say, and I'm happy that you agree, that blacks must be help accountable for our actions.

Unlike African Americans and other Blacks in the Diaspora, Nigerians, as well as some other continental Africans, were never robbed of their language, culture, name, or knowledge of self as Brother CD rightfully points out that Blacks in the Diaspora were. All of those cultural attributes are very much intact among Nigerians. Actually, according to some of their scholars, much of the internal workings of Nigerian culture are the same as they were since way before slavery, especially in non-urban areas. Please bear in mind that many Africans have never seen a white person.

But this really disturbs me: It sounds like you're saying that most black people lack free will when you say 'we are victims' and are and will continue to be the mere helpless pawns of whites.

I could also draw the conclusion from what you're saying that even Nigerians and other continentals who retained their culture and language fared differently but no better against white supremacy than those of us in the Diaspora. This means that reclaiming African culture and language (as some Blacks in the West are trying so hard to do) is pointless as long as white supremacy exists. I mean, why would we be trying to get something back that obviously did not protect the continental Africans who always had and still have it. Just a rhetorical point.
 

militant

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Jun 21, 2005
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I wouldnt attach too much emotion to what you have said so far. I think you have a sizable blindspot. You seem to go on about cultural robbery, and it seems to be your main obsession. Those are your personal issues, and they have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

As a Nigerian I do not feel I need to explain anything to you. Your opinions count for nothing and your pity is certainly rejected. However, I will feel guilty if I did not give you a chance of enligtenment.

To Clarify, Nigerians are NOT the only ones involved in fraudlent activities. Unfortunately for us, we have criminals from other African countries who take advantage of notoriety and call themselves "Nigerians". I treated a "Nigerian" patient in a hospital once, whose economic activities were questionable.

The common denominator for all Africans in Diaspora and in the Continent is economic domination by an International system heavily biased towards the West. This is not a blame whitey. You are more of a professional in blaming whitey than me. This is reality.

The actions of any criminal few is guided by the need to survive by any means necessary, societal laws being thrown out of the window. If you want to continue to attack an African people you hold so much grudges and cultural hang ups towards, then by God attack the International economic system that is turning their homelands into places where the only way out is fraud on the internet.





Riada said:
Destee, I'm willing to accept what you're saying here as an "extenuating circumstance.", but I continue to say, and I'm happy that you agree, that blacks must be help accountable for our actions.

Unlike African Americans and other Blacks in the Diaspora, Nigerians, as well as some other continental Africans, were never robbed of their language, culture, name, or knowledge of self as Brother CD rightfully points out that Blacks in the Diaspora were. All of those cultural attributes are very much intact among Nigerians. Actually, according to some of their scholars, much of the internal workings of Nigerian culture are the same as they were since way before slavery, especially in non-urban areas. Please bear in mind that many Africans have never seen a white person.

But this really disturbs me: It sounds like you're saying that most black people lack free will when you say 'we are victims' and are and will continue to be the mere helpless pawns of whites.

I could also draw the conclusion from what you're saying that even Nigerians and other continentals who retained their culture and language fared differently but no better against white supremacy than those of us in the Diaspora. This means that reclaiming African culture and language (as some Blacks in the West are trying so hard to do) is pointless as long as white supremacy exists. I mean, why would we be trying to get something back that obviously did not protect the continental Africans who always had and still have it. Just a rhetorical point.
 

KWABENA

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militant said:
I wouldnt attach too much emotion to what you have said so far. I think you have a sizable blindspot. You seem to go on about cultural robbery, and it seems to be your main obsession. Those are your personal issues, and they have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

As a Nigerian I do not feel I need to explain anything to you. Your opinions count for nothing and your pity is certainly rejected. However, I will feel guilty if I did not give you a chance of enligtenment.

To Clarify, Nigerians are NOT the only ones involved in fraudlent activities. Unfortunately for us, we have criminals from other African countries who take advantage of notoriety and call themselves "Nigerians". I treated a "Nigerian" patient in a hospital once, whose economic activities were questionable.

The common denominator for all Africans in Diaspora and in the Continent is economic domination by an International system heavily biased towards the West. This is not a blame whitey. You are more of a professional in blaming whitey than me. This is reality.

The actions of any criminal few is guided by the need to survive by any means necessary, societal laws being thrown out of the window. If you want to continue to attack an African people you hold so much grudges and cultural hang ups towards, then by God attack the International economic system that is turning their homelands into places where the only way out is fraud on the internet.
.............Whew! Brotha I felt the fire in those words!

As my Beloved Brothas from the 'Solvivaz Nation' say in one of their songs..."Father(s) Keep it MILITANT uhuh...!" LOL! (Had to mention that)

Peace

KD
 

militant

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Jun 21, 2005
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Cedric Denson said:
.............Whew! Brotha I felt the fire in those words!

As my Beloved Brothas from the 'Solvivaz Nation' say in one of their songs..."Father(s) Keep it MILITANT uhuh...!" LOL! (Had to mention that)

Peace

KD
I do not understand Afrikans who think everyone is in the business of blaming whitey. This issue is not even limited to Nigerian criminals.

Only a blind person will not see that Afrikan culture (Diaspora and Continental) is under constant attack. Just recently, we have this reality show called "Survivor of the Races" with a sole purpose to display a deficiency of negroes. And here we have Riada going about on blame whitey.

The fact is no black person on this planet wants to live a life of crime or poverty. A man's enthusiasm is limited by his options. To ascribe criminal mentality, or poverty mentality to any man without taking cognisance of the poor choice of options afforded to him by white supremacy, is flat out prejudice. She is no better than the white supremacists, infact she is finishing their job for them.

We are not exempting anyone here. A criminal should be condemned. But the condition that makes a criminal should also be condemned. And such unfavorable conditions need to be changed by concerted efforts of all Afrikans!
 

Destee

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Riada said:
Destee, I'm willing to accept what you're saying here as an "extenuating circumstance.", but I continue to say, and I'm happy that you agree, that blacks must be help accountable for our actions.

Unlike African Americans and other Blacks in the Diaspora, Nigerians, as well as some other continental Africans, were never robbed of their language, culture, name, or knowledge of self as Brother CD rightfully points out that Blacks in the Diaspora were. All of those cultural attributes are very much intact among Nigerians. Actually, according to some of their scholars, much of the internal workings of Nigerian culture are the same as they were since way before slavery, especially in non-urban areas. Please bear in mind that many Africans have never seen a white person.

But this really disturbs me: It sounds like you're saying that most black people lack free will when you say 'we are victims' and are and will continue to be the mere helpless pawns of whites.

I could also draw the conclusion from what you're saying that even Nigerians and other continentals who retained their culture and language fared differently but no better against white supremacy than those of us in the Diaspora. This means that reclaiming African culture and language (as some Blacks in the West are trying so hard to do) is pointless as long as white supremacy exists. I mean, why would we be trying to get something back that obviously did not protect the continental Africans who always had and still have it. Just a rhetorical point.
Sister Riada ... Mr. Neely Fuller says the same as you, regarding some of your comments above. He says that we should not spend so much time worrying about history, what happened yesterday, last year, or 10,000 years ago. He says that we should only be concerned about history long enough to determine where we went wrong, how we got in this mess ... and not 5 minutes more of history is needed. He says that we should be focusing on today, and how to replace this universal system of white supremacy with a system of justice.

He also likens the world to one great big slave ship, and all of the non-white people are in the bottom of that ship. No matter where on the earth you may reside, if you are non-white, you are on the bottom of that slave ship. Of course the white people will occasionally let some of us out of the bottom of the ship, to walk around on deck, get a little sun, do some work for them, etc., but whenever they tell you to go back down in the bottom of that ship, back you will go.

He says that racial enslavement never ended.

He says that no matter where in the world a non-white person resides, they are dependent on white supremacists to supply all of their needs. Even in those places you mention, where non-white people have never seen a white person, they are controlled by white people.

What do Black people produce, besides problems, Mr. Neely Fuller, Jr. asks?

You mention pawns, but tell me Sister, if white people wanted to turn off your lights right now, no matter that you paid the bill, could they do it, and could you stop them? If they wanted to cut off your access to water, could they do it, and could you stop them? If they wanted to lock up a disproportionate number of Black Men in their system of justice, could they do it, and could you stop them?

At the end of every day, who controls the world?

Again i quote Mr. Neely Fuller, Jr. ...

If you do not understand 'white' supremacy (as racism)
----- what it is, and how it works ------
everything else that you understand, will only confuse you.​

:heart:

Destee
 

Riada

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militant said:
I wouldnt attach too much emotion to what you have said so far. I think you have a sizable blindspot. You seem to go on about cultural robbery, and it seems to be your main obsession. Those are your personal issues, and they have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

As a Nigerian I do not feel I need to explain anything to you. Your opinions count for nothing and your pity is certainly rejected. However, I will feel guilty if I did not give you a chance of enligtenment.

To Clarify, Nigerians are NOT the only ones involved in fraudlent activities. Unfortunately for us, we have criminals from other African countries who take advantage of notoriety and call themselves "Nigerians". I treated a "Nigerian" patient in a hospital once, whose economic activities were questionable.

The common denominator for all Africans in Diaspora and in the Continent is economic domination by an International system heavily biased towards the West. This is not a blame whitey. You are more of a professional in blaming whitey than me. This is reality.

The actions of any criminal few is guided by the need to survive by any means necessary, societal laws being thrown out of the window. If you want to continue to attack an African people you hold so much grudges and cultural hang ups towards, then by God attack the International economic system that is turning their homelands into places where the only way out is fraud on the internet.

I only hope that the criminal few--Lawdy, Lawd-- in Nigeria have as much compassion for all of the Nigerian nationals who are "stuck" in foreign, hostile lands as you have for them. You're making it sound like those leaders are starving and are stealing billions to buy themselves a loaf of bread or to get basic essentials.

I would actually encourage any starving person to steal if necessary to get food. Will these "Big Men" not survive if they don't buy yet another mansion, fleet of HUMMERs, or can't send a girlfriend to Paris to get her hair and nails done? They're doing it at your expense, but it sounds like you don't mind. They know they can always count on the folks in their own ethnic group, among a few others, to support them and that's why they make sure they throw around a few crumbs, while they crap on the rest of the citizens.

Keep making excuses if that makes you feel better. I mingle with some of those more privileged Nigerians who jet back and forth. I know exactly what some of them are like.
 

Riada

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Destee said:
Sister Riada ... Mr. Neely Fuller says the same as you, regarding some of your comments above. He says that we should not spend so much time worrying about history, what happened yesterday, last year, or 10,000 years ago. He says that we should only be concerned about history long enough to determine where we went wrong, how we got in this mess ... and not 5 minutes more of history is needed. He says that we should be focusing on today, and how to replace this universal system of white supremacy with a system of justice.

He also likens the world to one great big slave ship, and all of the non-white people are in the bottom of that ship. No matter where on the earth you may reside, if you are non-white, you are on the bottom of that slave ship. Of course the white people will occasionally let some of us out of the bottom of the ship, to walk around on deck, get a little sun, do some work for them, etc., but whenever they tell you to go back down in the bottom of that ship, back you will go.

He says that racial enslavement never ended.

He says that no matter where in the world a non-white person resides, they are dependent on white supremacists to supply all of their needs. Even in those places you mention, where non-white people have never seen a white person, they are controlled by white people.

What do Black people produce, besides problems, Mr. Neely Fuller, Jr. asks?

You mention pawns, but tell me Sister, if white people wanted to turn off your lights right now, no matter that you paid the bill, could they do it, and could you stop them? If they wanted to cut off your access to water, could they do it, and could you stop them? If they wanted to lock up a disproportionate number of Black Men in their system of justice, could they do it, and could you stop them?

At the end of every day, who controls the world?

Again i quote Mr. Neely Fuller, Jr. ...

If you do not understand 'white' supremacy (as racism)
----- what it is, and how it works ------
everything else that you understand, will only confuse you.​

:heart:

Destee
Destee, I'm not sure what Neely Fuller meant when he refers to Blacks as only producing problems. Maybe he was just being sarcastic? That's only true IF we look at black people through the eyes of hateful whites and hateful others. I don't look at Black people throught the eyes of whites because it's not in my best interests to do so. Black people have produced great things for this world and we're still producing great things, as quiet as it's kept, so I don't see us as a 'problem' people at all.

I don't claim to have total clarity about our entire situation, because none of us can see the whole picture at all times, so yes I'm confused in some areas. For ex. I'm confused about how anyone can excuse Black people who crap on other Black people when sometimes Blacks in power do it simply because they can. This is just one of the many things I don't understand about the thinking of some of us--those nuances. I think where I part company with some of y'all is that I don't blame white people for ALL of the low-down things that Black folks do sometimes to each other. But to each his own.

As for white folks turning off my electricity and such, I'm way ahead of that in my thinking. I EXPECT white and some Black elite people too to do those kind of things when anyone goes against them because 'power concedes nothing without a fight.' As my grandmother said, "If you're going to be a warrior, you should expect to be shot at." Unfortunately the brothers who are locked up either didn't expect it or maybe no longer cared.

However, if I accepted that white folks have barricaded all the doors and sealed up all the cracks, and there's no chance or barely any chance of escape as some seem to be stressing in this thread, I probably wouldn't care either. I would just slit my throat and get it over with. I'm beginning to think that IF this 'NO WAY OUT' mindset is the common way of thinking for those brothers in prison, and some other Black folks, then this would certainly explain why so many of our folks continue to do suidical and homicidal things.

I may be in the minority and I'm prepared to catch flack here, but I believe that Black people have numerous options and we have them NOW even while racism continues to rage.

We have to be careful not to convey this 'no way out' type of message in our attitude or in word or deed when we are around our young people. We ARE powerful. Any structure--bad or good--that any human may build can be minimized or destroyed by another human. No other group of humans are smarter or more capable than me and mine. This is the kind of message that was instilled in me as a child. This type of empowering message is the ONLY message that I would want repeated around my children or any other young black people in my circle.
 

Ikoro

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May 23, 2006
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Sister Riada, I think you have missed a central point in Brother Militants statement.

You started out by saying "Nigerians are corrupt", which was also my issue with the statement. Then you went on to saying "Nigerian LEADERS are corrupt", which is quite a different thing.

Also, if I understood your posts correctly, it seems you do not wish to even try to understand the incentives one might have to hustle. A person using internet-fraud to achieve financial gain is -almost- the same as a thug in the streets of your ghettos who is "on the hustle", or on the "paper chase" is it not?

Furthermore, Nigerians might not have been as -badly- robbed as the rest of our Afrikan people, but we certainly were not left out of the looting. What of the White Christian religion that was implanted in us, or Islam with its sharia? What of our wars and intercultural/border/oil conflicts? Are these not all a part of WS' scheme? Or will you place the blame solely on only us?

"Extenuating circumstances" or not, Sister Riada, one should try to be as understanding as one can without "absolving" a person for his/her actions. And I simply do not see that in you.

Militant wrote:
The fact is no black person on this planet wants to live a life of crime or poverty. A man's enthusiasm is limited by his options. To ascribe criminal mentality, or poverty mentality to any man without taking cognisance of the poor choice of options afforded to him by white supremacy, is flat out prejudice. She is no better than the white supremacists, infact she is finishing their job for them.
Too true, not only for Sister Riada's mindset, but for the mindset of so many who have never been close enough to the dire situation that has befallen som of our people. You would never hear a levelheaded Nigerian blame another Nigerian completely for stealing or, as it should be called, trying to SURVIVE...very few anyway.

Brother Militant, you remind me much of my father, I am glad to have made your aqcuaintance. My deep respect goes out to you.

The situation in Nigeria should not be seen as a "no way out" type of situation, absolutely not. But the problems over there are the same as here or in the US. We are not organized. The WS powers that be are doing all they can to scatter us. There is, unfortunately, no room in the minds of most people that are preoccupied with surviving to start organizing, philosophizing of conceptualizing about democracy, freedom etc. They talk about it, and oftentimes... that is all they -can- do. Through a joint effort with Afrikans off the continent can the Afrikans on the continent help uplift themselves further. There are no (VERY few) communities like the Ausar Auset, or Destee on the continent. This is a problem we can- and should help solve from outside.

~Ikoro
 

KWABENA

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You know - I am well connected with a few Nigerians, and [especially those here in this Country], I have not heard them talk about how bad Nigerian was, how Bad Nigerians are, and how "corrupt" things are and what not.

(Before I continue, before I forget to this, I need to mention that I was SO GLAD to see this statment made:)
Posted by Ikoro
Stop pointing at Nigeria, Nigeria is not pointing at you.
Moving on-

I will tell you that-

(1) I have a Brotha over in Nigeria who informed me that in his part of the country, the only way people over there make money is by robbing, stealing, and 'hustling.' Just as it was mentioned, when people have a lack of opportunities and options, they have to do these things to survive. As I mentioned in one of my posts, when Black folks all over the 'place' unify and come together to fix our conditions, we will see just how "corrupt" of a People we really are.

(2) As far as my Beloved Nigerians over here in AmeriKKKa, one thing they had in common was this: They all WISH that people would stop looking at their country as a 'pit of hell,' and stop treating them like they are "a corrupt group of people," for they have not done anything to anyone theirselves. We can take responsibility of our actions all we want to, so long as we know that we DON'T Know Our Selves yet, therefore we are taking on the behaviors and lifestyles of our oppressors. When we get rid of our Oppressors' Mentalities, we will see just how much we can destroy each other...

KD
 

Riada

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Ikoro said:
You started out by saying "Nigerians are corrupt", which was also my issue with the statement. Then you went on to saying "Nigerian LEADERS are corrupt", which is quite a different thing.

Also, if I understood your posts correctly, it seems you do not wish to even try to understand the incentives one might have to hustle. A person using internet-fraud to achieve financial gain is -almost- the same as a thug in the streets of your ghettos who is "on the hustle", or on the "paper chase" is it not?

We are not organized. The WS powers that be are doing all they can to scatter us. There is, unfortunately, no room in the minds of most people that are preoccupied with surviving to start organizing, philosophizing of conceptualizing about democracy, freedom etc.
~Ikoro
You seem to keep bringing this back to African Americans with the "ghetto" reference above. This thread, however, has to do with Nigerians. If this thread dealt with African Americans, you would see I'd be saying something very similar, as I have in other threads here.

I happily amend my statement to say that "Nigerian leadership is very corrupt," if this sounds better to you, but this corruption has oftentimes trickled on down and is now throughout--for the most part. As I said, I don't blame the person who can barely eat for stealing. I also don't think it's fair that ALL Nigerians are now painted with the same broad brush, but keep in mind that many regular Nigerians do not like dealing with other regular Nigerians because of this perception they have about each other. I'm frequently warned by Nigerians to be careful about my business dealings with other Nigerians. This is because these people have been gypped by their bretheren.

Also, many people--both Nigerian and African Americans--who hustle are not doing it solely to eat or pay for necessities. Many of them do it to buy big screen TVs, expensive vehicles, designer clothes, etc. I realize that their defenders will say that it's not their fault that they think like that, but in my mind that doesn't absolve them of hurting other Black people. This is just the way I think, and I realize you may think differently.

You say that people who are trying to survive have no room for organizing. Brother, I consider that another excuse. You may not be aware of this, but during slavery and Jim Crow periods in this country, my ancestors did just that--ORGANIZE and this was why the Civil Rights movement even began. We were constantly organizing here BECAUSE of racism. We didn't wait for racism to let up. We did not have our original language, culture, and the white man's foot was constantly up our butts every day, all day long, but still we ORGANIZED. It has to do with MINDSET--not opportunity. If you have the right mindset, you will create the opportunity. Everything proceeds from how people think. It seems obvious to me that if we keep making these grandiose, blanket excuses for why we do each other in, there is then little to no pressure to think or do anything different--because those who do the dirt can count on it that our folks will understand why we do the dirt we do.
 

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