IS IT TIME TO GO TO WAR AGAINST THE RAP INDUSTRY?

Omowale Jabali

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Joyce said:
omowalejabali said:

You said:
I dont ignore the negative aspects of RAP/hip hop but I believe there seems to be a lack of balance concerning how its viewed by the OLDER generation and folks like Oprah dont help. Neither do the arguments of OLDER black people who sound like Oprah, who, by the way, has a target audience of 50+ WHITE WOMEN, for the most part.


I hope you know that RAP has a larger audience of white folks than Oprah by at least 10x plus the world. Asians, hispanics, etc. As many of them put it...they love listening to "negga" music. I hope you know that white people are the biggest purchasers of RAP music and it is not viewed by them as something positive but simply entertaining. We need to lay down this slavery mindset of black people entertaining the white man with his desparity.

You Also Said:

So my problem is when older folks who are not part of this community or art form blankedly condemn it and the people involved while not knowing just how deeply rooted segments of the hip hop community are embedded not only in jazz but the Black arts movement.


I guess I would be considered old (even though I don't feel like it) but believe it or not I love this art form. However, I am very selective at what and who I listen to. Just don't like putting poison on my brain. If your lyrics is made up of profanity and porn expressions and guns, that to me is not art because anybody can do that and thus you won't hold my attention. But if you are a Lauren Hill or Felica Jones...then you got my attention. I am a poet...how could I not love the art form of Hip Hop.
when you speak of how many "white people" buy "rap music" and so on compare this to JAZZ (and I belong to BOTH hip hop and jazz communities) and I am sure there are a higher percentage of "white people" that buy and support jazz than the percentage of blacks who buy and support jazz.

Furthermore, I KNOW a higher percentage of inner-city Black youth are part of hip hop culture while jazz has become a mostly white patronized, ELITIST artform for the sake of "art" that is highly intellectualized and not the same relevance to the Black masses as it was in the 40s or 50.

So [lease, when you speak to me concerning a need to "lay down this mindset of black people"....long before there was a 50 Cent there was "Satchmo"...(ouch...hurts me saying it...)

When Miles layed down his horn in 1975 there along came Wynton Marsalis....and who is he mostly "entertaining"...??? Who can afford his concert ticket prices??? Do you hear Wynton on "Black" radio???

C'mon now.......this is MY LIFE i'm speaking on.....and MY FAMILY....again....has played an integral part i the BLACK ARTS COMMUNITY!!!

when most "black folks" dont even know this movement still exists!
 

Omowale Jabali

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That Jones Boy said:
While I support the general idea of this thread I do have a point or question.
It has too be brought up that if there wern`t so many black females willing too appear in these videos the explotation couldn`t exist.
Now it has to be argued that isn`t part of and maybe even the core of this problem down to the amount of black women willing to appear in these videos.
so sure brothers doing the exploiting need re educating but can`t it be argued that the real solution is educating and changing the thinking and awareness levels of the women willing to appear in these videos.
once these ilk of black women (those lacking awarness of their own worth) are no longer willing to degrade themselves in these videos then the problem is solved ?
The brothers doing the exploiting will hopefully get wised up by this turn of events and the "devils" wants and needs will no longer matter anyway?

"The brothers doing the exploiting...."

Hold up...what about the "independent Black women" who are self-produced "artists" that are in a position to HIRE black men to photograph them while directing their own videos and writing, producing and distributing their own material???

think they dont exist....take a good look at one of my web sites...

www.myspace.com/omowalejabali

A lot of these women run their own game. A lot of these "Video Vixens" (as THEY describe themselves...just read their blogs....esp Esther Baxter....Somaya Reece....Candice Pillay...Tila Tequila) and market and produce themselves...some of the top models in mags that you can buy at the local 7-11..or Barnes and Nobles....they are not just internet models but successful entrepeneurs who have a variety of websites and photography, web design, fashion sites and music distribution companies and networks they have independently established on the net...again...I interact with these folks DAILY...take the black men out of the game and these women still run theirs...they are doing it all across the south forming dj collectives and networks of female emcees such as the Underground Queens...and the Murder Mamis....or Dj Lady Tribe...Crystlye and Tequila....Ebony Eyez...Kinary Diamonds...Hedonis the Amazon...Jade Foxx...Nynewest...Lady Ice.....all independent and self-produced....
 

That Jones Boy

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omowalejabali said:
"The brothers doing the exploiting...."

Hold up...what about the "independent Black women" who are self-produced "artists" that are in a position to HIRE black men to photograph them while directing their own videos and writing, producing and distributing their own material???

think they dont exist....take a good look at one of my web sites...

www.myspace.com/omowalejabali

A lot of these women run their own game. A lot of these "Video Vixens" (as THEY describe themselves...just read their blogs....esp Esther Baxter....Somaya Reece....Candice Pillay...Tila Tequila) and market and produce themselves...some of the top models in mags that you can buy at the local 7-11..or Barnes and Nobles....they are not just internet models but successful entrepeneurs who have a variety of websites and photography, web design, fashion sites and music distribution companies and networks they have independently established on the net...again...I interact with these folks DAILY...take the black men out of the game and these women still run theirs...they are doing it all across the south forming dj collectives and networks of female emcees such as the Underground Queens...and the Murder Mamis....or Dj Lady Tribe...Crystlye and Tequila....Ebony Eyez...Kinary Diamonds...Hedonis the Amazon...Jade Foxx...Nynewest...Lady Ice.....all independent and self-produced....
Okay you didn`t have to prove it I would take your word for it , couldn`t find the particular artist your refered too but your my space looked interesting so I put it in my favaorites and will check it out more fully.
But I have no doubt that these women exist there are similar women in the porn industry too the same way there are plenty of brothers willing to promote the worst aspects of the black community rap about r-ping h-es and killing ni--az and yet still insist in promoting themselves as pro black icons (ie NWA Tupac and the worst of the bunch ice cube) there is always someone who falsly promotes themselves like that.
And I am sure everyone of those females shakining their bootys in next to nothing in these videos in question also view themselves as independent minded women just using their "assesets" to get ahead.
The problem comes with the negative image they create of black women in general and also that part of the problem is the frequency with which this imagery is promoted compared to any more positive imagery.
If anything your point increases my point that in truth its the women themselves that are most in need of educating and enlightening.

@Jamesfromphilly true enough not everything in hip hop is negative in fact its only since the rise of "gangsta rap" that its image has become such a negative one, prior to that the vast majority was positive (public enemy ect) little of it was as negative as this thug life gangsta rap is, even more recently there were positive hip hop groups such as arrested devolpment who disappeared all too quickly.
Its just that nowadys sadly its mostly Gangsta rap thats getting promoted, in fact on another site someone put forward that this promotion of gangsta rap was some kind of racist conspiracy.
I don`t know about that but for sure this thug life type of rap out there at present pretty much promotes every negative image of blacks that white racist society would like to see promoted.
 

jamesfrmphilly

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That Jones Boy said:
this thug life type of rap out there at present pretty much promotes every negative image of blacks that white racist society would like to see promoted.
do you think that is a coincidence?
 

Omowale Jabali

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That Jones Boy said:
Okay you didn`t have to prove it I would take your word for it , couldn`t find the particular artist your refered too but your my space looked interesting so I put it in my favaorites and will check it out more fully.
But I have no doubt that these women exist there are similar women in the porn industry too the same way there are plenty of brothers willing to promote the worst aspects of the black community rap about r-ping h-es and killing ni--az and yet still insist in promoting themselves as pro black icons (ie NWA Tupac and the worst of the bunch ice cube) there is always someone who falsly promotes themselves like that.
And I am sure everyone of those females shakining their bootys in next to nothing in these videos in question also view themselves as independent minded women just using their "assesets" to get ahead.
The problem comes with the negative image they create of black women in general and also that part of the problem is the frequency with which this imagery is promoted compared to any more positive imagery.
If anything your point increases my point that in truth its the women themselves that are most in need of educating and enlightening.

@Jamesfromphilly true enough not everything in hip hop is negative in fact its only since the rise of "gangsta rap" that its image has become such a negative one, prior to that the vast majority was positive (public enemy ect) little of it was as negative as this thug life gangsta rap is, even more recently there were positive hip hop groups such as arrested devolpment who disappeared all too quickly.
Its just that nowadys sadly its mostly Gangsta rap thats getting promoted, in fact on another site someone put forward that this promotion of gangsta rap was some kind of racist conspiracy.
I don`t know about that but for sure this thug life type of rap out there at present pretty much promotes every negative image of blacks that white racist society would like to see promoted.
If it's the "women themselves that are most in need of educating and enlightening" I must ask whoo exactly is to do this "educating and enlightening"...black men??

let me explain my entire basic problem with this premise. very simple, it was not hip hop that created this trend in the media but it's the most recent.

music video was "revolutionized" by three pop "icons"...Michael Jackson, Prince and Madonna.

Michael Jackson INVENTED "crouch grabbing" in EVERY VIDEO he performed in. Prince's "Revolution" was in fact on the heels of the so-called "Sexual Revolution" and with white bandmates Wendy and Lisa and his "mistresses" Vanity and Appalonia, not only "popularized" bi-sexuality AND lesbianism but this initiated the trend of featuring white and near white "video actresses" into mainstream "pop" and r&b music videos. Madonna took this further featuring black males as LEAD and FEATURED dancers and Janet Jackson incorporated the "innovations of all three particularly starting with her "Control" release and featuring her latino/white boyfriend as a lead and featured dancer and actor who also was her choreographer.

So my point is, before we even talk about the LATTER developments in "hip hop" look closer at how these reflected what already was popularized in POP CULTURE.

Appalonia, Vanity 6, Mary Jane Girls and Parlet created the conditions that led to the incorporation of porn stars and strippers as feature models/actors in mainstream video. Hip hop just took it to its more graphic extreme form as hip hop/rap artists themselves got further involved in the video production starting with the "booty videos" from Florida's South beach/ "spring break" and new orleans "mardi gras" strip parties featuring porn actresses which eventually starting making their way into the mainstream after years of being cheaply done amateur productions. And, for the most part, this had a large part to do with why Tupac Shakur was killed following the "How Do U Want It" video featuring Heather Hunter and directed by porn actor and emerging director Ron Hightower. I will let you think on what I'm talking about...considering Suge Knight was set to open a strip club in Vegas.
 

Omowale Jabali

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jamesfrmphilly said:
do you think that is a coincidence?
it's not a coincidence but i doubt seriously as if its a "great white conspiracy" either considering the effect that this imagery has had on "white culture" itself. i'm sure that was something that was theme in the movie "Traffic".

Hip hop did not "thug out" the black community because N.W.A. and the Geto Boys came from the "GHETTOE" but it has had the affect of turning white america's "vanilla suburbs" into "gehetto nations" all over this planet and many white parents are TERRIFIED which is why this country stays in a constant state of ALERT.

Agin, spend just a little time on my space and other "social networking" sites and this is crystal clear. White youth are "thugged out". Millions of white youth are self producing their own home made "booty videos" and promoting themselves as "pimps" and "hos" and there is a lot of peer pressure within many of their cliques to be "import models" (particularly among filipino/pacific islanders) "wild party girls" and bi-sexuality is run amuck amongst young white women. and i was thinking about something else earlier....

the so-called "gangst rappers" from the west coast who pioneered the music, namely from Ruthless and Death Row records are either dead (Eazy-E) or bankruppt (Suge Knight) and the three most successful entrepeneurs who are still making billions are Russel Simmons, Jay-Z, and Sean "P-Diddy" Combs, ALL THREE WHO OWN HIGH FASHION DESIGN LABELS...

Now I ask, is that just a coincidence.....???
 

That Jones Boy

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jamesfrmphilly said:
do you think that is a coincidence?
Not so sure these days, used to not give much credit to the its a white conspiracy kind of theories.
But I wonder about it a lot now since it for sure plays right into white racists hands.
it promotes just about everything worse they would want to promote to and about black people.
 

That Jones Boy

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May 21, 2006
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omowalejabali said:
If it's the "women themselves that are most in need of educating and enlightening" I must ask whoo exactly is to do this "educating and enlightening"...black men??

let me explain my entire basic problem with this premise. very simple, it was not hip hop that created this trend in the media but it's the most recent.

music video was "revolutionized" by three pop "icons"...Michael Jackson, Prince and Madonna.

Michael Jackson INVENTED "crouch grabbing" in EVERY VIDEO he performed in. Prince's "Revolution" was in fact on the heels of the so-called "Sexual Revolution" and with white bandmates Wendy and Lisa and his "mistresses" Vanity and Appalonia, not only "popularized" bi-sexuality AND lesbianism but this initiated the trend of featuring white and near white "video actresses" into mainstream "pop" and r&b music videos. Madonna took this further featuring black males as LEAD and FEATURED dancers and Janet Jackson incorporated the "innovations of all three particularly starting with her "Control" release and featuring her latino/white boyfriend as a lead and featured dancer and actor who also was her choreographer.

So my point is, before we even talk about the LATTER developments in "hip hop" look closer at how these reflected what already was popularized in POP CULTURE.

Appalonia, Vanity 6, Mary Jane Girls and Parlet created the conditions that led to the incorporation of porn stars and strippers as feature models/actors in mainstream video. Hip hop just took it to its more graphic extreme form as hip hop/rap artists themselves got further involved in the video production starting with the "booty videos" from Florida's South beach/ "spring break" and new orleans "mardi gras" strip parties featuring porn actresses which eventually starting making their way into the mainstream after years of being cheaply done amateur productions. And, for the most part, this had a large part to do with why Tupac Shakur was killed following the "How Do U Want It" video featuring Heather Hunter and directed by porn actor and emerging director Ron Hightower. I will let you think on what I'm talking about...considering Suge Knight was set to open a strip club in Vegas.
Hm eloaborate a little more on the theory about why Tupac was killed can`t say I have heard that angle before sounds interesting.

As to who should do the educating all right minded enlightened black men and women should be trying to educate these booty bouncers about the harm they are doing to the image of black women.
If I were to ever have a daughter I wouldn`t want them to grow up with those images thrown at them as being "cool" or what black womanhood is all about.
Agree with you hip hop didn`t start it but its the extreme of it , and its also the one thats doing the most harm at present to the image of black women, worse still its does harm to black womens self image.
Its a sad state of affairs were a whole bunch of black females are promoting the idea that being seen as a sex object is something "hip" to do.
 

Omowale Jabali

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That Jones Boy said:
Hm eloaborate a little more on the theory about why Tupac was killed can`t say I have heard that angle before sounds interesting.

As to who should do the educating all right minded enlightened black men and women should be trying to educate these booty bouncers about the harm they are doing to the image of black women.
If I were to ever have a daughter I wouldn`t want them to grow up with those images thrown at them as being "cool" or what black womanhood is all about.
Agree with you hip hop didn`t start it but its the extreme of it , and its also the one thats doing the most harm at present to the image of black women, worse still its does harm to black womens self image.
Its a sad state of affairs were a whole bunch of black females are promoting the idea that being seen as a sex object is something "hip" to do.
Brother, you need to understand the direction "hip hop" was going into at the time Tupac was killed. What I am presenting is an "angle" that you most likely will not hear elsewhere because it's not pased on "theories" from police onvestigators who have become the "experts" and chief sources of information in the aftermath of his and Biggie's "assassinations". Plain and simple, Suge crossed over a line and the white mob was not gonna let him set up clubs and strip clubs on their turf and to this date there is no Vegas "rap scene" just "passers by". Tupac and Snoop were going into the direction of doing porn videos and this accounts for Pac's friendship with Ron Hightower and Heather Hunter, just to name the main ones at the time. It is no small wonder that Snoop started the "Doggystyle" videos after leaving Tha Row since this was a direction that No Limit and Mystical waas breaking ground in. Game Entertainment which does the "Hip Hop Honeys" videos shot one series in Vegas but that was it but Royce da 5'9 was involved in a shooting incident afterwards. The mafia ain't letting black rappers move into that market, not yet. They got too much of the club scene going through Pure Nightclub.

I agree that this is a "sad state of affairs" and for that reason a few months ago stopped buying mainstream hip hop and I dont watch BET or MTV video programs. However, as I have pointed out before, there are BLACK WOMEN who are high level exectuvies within BET, MTV and Media One whio are actively involved in determining the programming of these formats. That is how video "vixens" such as Melyssa Ford are getting hired. Again, I can agree with much of the criticism of "hip hop" but maintain that it doesn't begin there.

I say this because I personally have a problem, on the other hand, with radio programmers who have R&B formats that advertise the fact they don't play hip hop but then have COMEDIANS as DJ's and then play mostly "bump and grind" music. Quite frankly, I dont see how R.Kelly is any better than Nelly or Snoop. Furthermore, most "bump and grind" artists feature "rappers" on many of their tracks. Just look at Usher and the work he's done with Luda and Lil Jon.

And looking back, I got into "rap" more back in the 80s cuz I was tired of Al B. Sure, Keith Sweat and Prince. And all their music is/was about is "sex,sex and more sex"....

So really, what's the difference??
 

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