IS IT TIME TO GO TO WAR AGAINST THE RAP INDUSTRY?

jamesfrmphilly

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omowalejabali said:
i dont really expect you to agree but as a musician i will continue to take exception to your viewpoint.

you continue to generalize against a culture while not recognizing the positive aspects within what is an international phenomenon that has a myriad of positive artists and i am sure that you are simply out of touch and living in a by-gone era.
as a musician who is also the son of a be bop alto player i think i know just a little about the area. hip hop is no be bop, period.

is there good hip hop? sure there is. there were also good germans in nazi germany. it didn't do the jews much good did it? these gangstas and thugs have let themselves be turned against their own people. they get no love from me.

btw - sometimes a difference of opinion is simply a difference of opinion. it doesn't have to mean you need to try to demonize me just because i see things different. think about it.
 

oldiesman

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is it time...

all is not lost black people,alot of the younger generation[male and female don't like the way sisters are being portrayed in rap],my fifteen year old who knows most of the rap stars detest the vidios with women being shown in a bad light and will grab the remote quickly.
 

Omowale Jabali

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jamesfrmphilly said:
as a musician who is also the son of a be bop alto player i think i know just a little about the area. hip hop is no be bop, period.

is there good hip hop? sure there is. there were also good germans in nazi germany. it didn't do the jews much good did it? these gangstas and thugs have let themselves be turned against their own people. they get no love from me.

btw - sometimes a difference of opinion is simply a difference of opinion. it doesn't have to mean you need to try to demonize me just because i see things different. think about it.
like i said hip hop is the be-bop of TODAY...meaning it is the popular music of today based on a similar tradition.

i am sure that miles davis built upon this with his "Doo-Bop" lp and i am also sure that herbie hancock, ornette coleman, quincy jones and marcus miller all would agree as each has incorporated hip hop in TODAY's "jazz" recordings.

again, your comments concerning "gangstas and thugs" is an overgeneralization and dismisses the wide-arrange of artists who have contirbuted to hip hop that is on a positive tip.
 

Khasm13

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omowalejabali said:
like i said hip hop is the be-bop of TODAY...meaning it is the popular music of today based on a similar tradition.

i am sure that miles davis built upon this with his "Doo-Bop" lp and i am also sure that herbie hancock, ornette coleman, quincy jones and marcus miller all would agree as each has incorporated hip hop in TODAY's "jazz" recordings.

again, your comments concerning "gangstas and thugs" is an overgeneralization and dismisses the wide-arrange of artists who have contirbuted to hip hop that is on a positive tip.
agreed...the b.s. rap gets all the airplay while the real hip-hop is stuck on college radio...

unfortunately, the majority of people in this country that are into rap like that r&b...rap and bullshhhhhhhhh......

one love
khasm
 

FLATFOOTFLOOGIE

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omowalejabali said:
like i said hip hop is the be-bop of TODAY...meaning it is the popular music of today based on a similar tradition.

i am sure that miles davis built upon this with his "Doo-Bop" lp and i am also sure that herbie hancock, ornette coleman, quincy jones and marcus miller all would agree as each has incorporated hip hop in TODAY's "jazz" recordings.

again, your comments concerning "gangstas and thugs" is an overgeneralization and dismisses the wide-arrange of artists who have contirbuted to hip hop that is on a positive tip.
You can add Ron Carter and the Greatest of BeBop Drummers, the venerable Max Roach to that group as well, brother Omowale. I once heard Max refer to HipHop and Jazz having the same kind of street origins.

But I understand where James is coming from in his criticism. While Jazz and Rap may have similar origins, JAZZ was NEVER as popular as RAP, and never as powerful in getting it's message across to it's listeners. I wish it were so, because many of the messages of RAP are plain nihilistic, and encouraging of the destruction of Black people and our communities. It's simply not enough to say there are a lot of positive messages in RAP, and ignore the more oft played and video-ized negative messages.
 

Omowale Jabali

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FLATFOOTFLOOGIE said:
You can add Ron Carter and the Greatest of BeBop Drummers, the venerable Max Roach to that group as well, brother Omowale. I once heard Max refer to HipHop and Jazz having the same kind of street origins.

But I understand where James is coming from in his criticism. While Jazz and Rap may have similar origins, JAZZ was NEVER as popular as RAP, and never as powerful in getting it's message across to it's listeners. I wish it were so, because many of the messages of RAP are plain nihilistic, and encouraging of the destruction of Black people and our communities. It's simply not enough to say there are a lot of positive messages in RAP, and ignore the more oft played and video-ized negative messages.
I dont ignore the negative aspects of RAP/hip hop but I believe there seems to be a lack of balance concerning how its viewed by the OLDER generation and folks like Oprah dont help. Neither do the arguments of OLDER black people who sound like Oprah, who, by the way, has a target audience of 50+ WHITE WOMEN, for the most part.

This kinda reminds me when I was an up and coming JAZZ trumpeter in the late 70s and along came wynton marsalis criticizing woody shaw and miles davis. Whyton was "stuck on bop" while miles was criticized for experimenting with electronics, "pop standards", "drug addiction" and turning his back to the audience when performing. And since then, jazz has become over-INTELLECTUALIZED, and elitist "art-form" out of touch with Black youth. I say all of this having been raised within the "jazz community" being related to a jazz MASTER (Don Cherry) who also was a WORLD MUSICIAN whose step-daughter Neneh has sold millions of records classified as "hip hop" and her mateiral can hardly be classified as "anti-Black". Neither can the work of my teachers and mentors such as Horace Tapscott, Kamau Daood and the Watts Prophets, all of whom have performed with and recorded with "rap artists" and the same in regards to Billy Higgins who created the World Stage as a performance space where for years local hip hop and jazz musicians have collaborated in the Leimert park area of los angeles.

So my problem is when older folks who are not part of this community or art form blankedly condemn it and the people involved while not knowing just how deeply rooted segments of the hip hop community are embedded not only in jazz but the Black arts movement.

Ironically, how can one from philly not even recognize The Roots, Bahamadia and Jill Scott who are some of hip hops most PRO-BLACK innovators?!
 

jamesfrmphilly

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omowalejabali said:
Ironically, how can one from philly not even recognize The Roots, Bahamadia and Jill Scott who are some of hip hops most PRO-BLACK innovators?!
easy, they are not doing nothing that sounds pro black to me. if they were, in fact, pro black they would not be on the white man's airwaves.
i'm sorry, i just do not feel it. wake me up when they get to the last poets level.

btw - i remind you once again that there does not have to be something wrong with everyone who has a different opinion from yours.
 

Omowale Jabali

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jamesfrmphilly said:
easy, they are not doing nothing that sounds pro black to me. if they were, in fact, pro black they would not be on the white man's airwaves.
i'm sorry, i just do not feel it. wake me up when they get to the last poets level.

btw - i remind you once again that there does not have to be something wrong with everyone who has a different opinion from yours.

im addressing a topic and you are the one doing the labeling. so, as you say "they are doing nothing pro black"...but jazz musicians who ARE on the "white man's airwaves" are "pro-black"...??


"wake me up when they get to the last poets level"

Wow. have you even heard any of their most recent work? again, here you are judging based on a 60s aesthetic....it seems that there is something wrong with anyone that does not agree with you and your likes or dislikes....
 

jamesfrmphilly

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omowalejabali said:
as you say "they are doing nothing pro black"
no, i said that they did not sound pro black to me. maybe they sound like that to you. i just don't feel it. am i permitted to not feel it?

omowalejabali said:
Wow. have you even heard any of their most recent work?
i do not follow any of these people closely. i hear what comes across my airwaves and i base my opinion on that.
none of them produce anything that would inspire me to look any closer.

omowalejabali said:
here you are judging based on a 60s aesthetic....
is that wrong? i loved the sixties. are you trying to say that i have not learned anything at all in the past 40 years? wow.

omowalejabali said:
it seems that there is something wrong with anyone that does not agree with you and your likes or dislikes....
actually, that is the way i feel about you. here you seem to be finding all kinds of fault with my person because i do not share your taste in hip hop.
can we get any more shallow than that?
 

emanuel goodman

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We must educate not seperate

I belive that rap is a new generation that was hatched from hip hop. I prefer to look at rap as hip hop's messed up and confused illegitamate son. Rap music is mostly centered around the obtainment of goods by means that was taught by the replacement teachers the amercian white male who demonstrated to us quite well how wealth and power can be obtained Through derespecting ,raping ,stealing, and killing for whatever we want. We also learned that all disputes can only be settle by a show of force.However it is possible that our gangsta rap brothers are unaware of the damage they are causing and i belive that any seperation on our parts in not in our best interests at this time . By communicating and healing our brothers and sisters we can use them as a vechile to reach our uninformed brothers and sisters to our level of understanding. We must educate not seperate.
 

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