African Traditional Religion : Honoring Ancestors.

Babasola

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Oct 19, 2013
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thx for posting this! LUISA TEISH is my Godmother. she initiated me in Oakland Ca 1987 n i have been active orisha n ancestor worshipper since then. i was finally intiated a Priestess in service to OYa by my Godfather IFAGBEMI TURPIN in 2009 Ejiogbe Ashefunmi. i saw a post entitled SHOULD I HONOR MY WHITE ANCESTORS... ancestors have no bodys therefore have no skin color...but their DNA is living within us. i was taught by Tiesh, no ancestor should be honored unless you feel what they say or give is for YOUR BENEFIT. i will not honor an ancestor who deserves no honor, yet i will speak to them n try to teach them IN SPIRIT WORLD where they have failed to be an honorable human soul. when we evolve n grow, they do too n this is called CO-CREATION. i welcome new friends to comment. ashefumi

Ancestors have no bodies is true. As you know or may not know, Ibile asa ati esin (Isese) means Traditional African culture/ religion. A tradition based on African Bloodlines.


These bloodlines are descended from Orunmila and The Orisa.

In Osa-Ika. Ifa says we (Black Afrikans) are the children of Ifa:

O sa kadi
O rin kadi
Difa fun Orunmila
Ifa nlo ree te ile Aye do
Ope segisegi
Ifa lo bi wa bawonyi berere
Ope segisegi
 

jamesfrmphilly

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unfortunately i do not speak fluent Yoruba so i cannot translate this ODU but how far back in time does the 'bloodline' go? mitochondrial DNA is direct thread of female lineage decended from mother to mother. in 1700s in Jamaica i found evidence there was an african woman who was a biological ancestor of me. i am here bcuz of her. my skin doesnt reflect her yet something inside me is her child. so i do believe that i am also a true child n descendent of ORUNMILA and ORISA.
i have a grandson who's father is from Jamaica so in this way is he not also a child of bloodline of ORISA?
also what about 'past life reincarnations' this is accepted concept in IFA. as my avatar protrait reveals to me a memory of a life in 1400s, but among the 1000s of incarnations i have made to this planet i also have a life within Africa when my skin DID reflect a relationship to 'black Africa' if i dont belong to ORISHA why was i initiated by wise elders many times over. i live in service to ORUNMILA OYA and MY ORI also pre-destined to do so. does 'traditional african religion' include all descendents living in the Diasphora from Africa. i am also a descendent of Jewish Diasphora, which one MUST i chose. or do only those who were born n live in Africa allowed to be child of ORI-ASHE? others may agree with ur POV but i do not.
:10500:cut the crap are you white or black?
 

Babasola

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Oct 19, 2013
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The bloodlines go back to the time when the Orisa and my ancestors had direct and physical interaction with each other. The time period is incalculable.

I have a Scots-irish white male ancestor, not Egun...in my family tree from the 1850's. Does this make me white? Do I have the right to claim Scots-Irish culture as my own,, including their respective Gods and heroes? No, I cannot and would not.

You may choose to believe what you like, however the culture does not support your beliefs. Neither do the Irunmole and Ifa.


Traditional African Religion is part of Black African Culture. The Black Africans in Africa and the Diaspora have a direct claim and in fact a duty to embrace the culture of our ancestors.

As to why you were "initiated" I'll tell you like I tell any non-Black person in your predicament. If your elders didn't know any better they should have
 

Babasola

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Oct 19, 2013
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now ur disrespecting my Godmother n Godfather, Chief Luisa Tiesh n Babalawo Ifagbemi Turpin n syaing they have done something wrong to initiate me. they r respected leaders in the Oakland-Bay Area community for over 40 yrs, initiating 100s in their lifetime. u say 'the culture' n IFA does not support me...what culture? nigeria, cuban, new orleans new york or bay area? or just ur circle of friends? i am accepted n supported by IFA. u do not have the right to claim ur translation of yoruba language is DIFINITIVE. not every one agree on meanings of words n concepts in any LANGUAGE be it chinese english yoruba etc. languages [especially yoruba-odu is poetry not dogma] they r 'open systems' that change with time n many words have many meanings. obviously Yoruba is not ur first language so what makes ur translation better than MY elders who i suspect r older n wiser than you. Nigerian/Yoruba leaders of Ifa r initiating many who r not in a direct BLOODLINE from africa. [u said urself 'bloodlines go back to when ORISA n my ancestors had direct n physical interaction...this time is incalcuable' r u in direct descent of the Oba in Benin? if not, in ur line of thinking, maybe u dont have the right to be a initiate of Ifa] using the term bloodline is outright racist as much as KKK n their talk of 'pure races'=they dont exist. u call me 'non black person' i will not label myself witha color dispite what u n others think i must do. is Salif Keita, a national hero n griot from Mali, not a man of african descent bcuz he has white skin? i am of mixed heritage n my appearence is not ur concern. i also have 'direct claim' to IRUNMOLE n OLOMORON the primortals n immortals as much as you do. this forum is to discuss ideas not for u to chastize my beliefs or tell me i dont belong where i am. what YOU choose to do is ur biz. as to ur 'rights' u have the RIGHT to believe what u want or do an irish dance or play a spanish guitar even a congolese drum, u can believe in christian athiest muslim buddhist or even be a hater. we are talking about religious beliefs. i embody ORISHA n speak to ABIKU n EGUNGUN performing much needed counsel for those in anquish. they r my informants not you. i am glad u feel its ur duty to embrace IFA n ORISHA as they are 'powers of nature' that should not be denied. remember ORI is the top ORI-ASHE. no other before it. it is my duty to worship n be guided by these forces. they do not belong to you n u have no RIGHT to tell me i am not a child of IFA. as my friend Babatundi Olatunji told me 'africa belongs to the WORLD' just as Kemet is the foundation of all human civilization. will u also say i cannot follow the 'book of the hours' when i die? the sooner we accept all 'our ancestors' the better this world will be for u n me but ESPECIALLY for young black men who r suffering from genocidal institutional racism in this country n many african nation like sudan, where lighter-skinned sudanese r killing darker sudanese. please try to be respectful of all paths n stop labeling stereotyping as this is poisening the whole world. PS unless you were initiated before 1987, i am YOUR elder n if you r my elder, i believe you can find the wisdom to consider my truths as valid. yara
There is no intent to disrespect anyone. Its not what I say or believe but about what Ifa says.

As I explained before, Traditional African Culture (Isese). This would include all the various traditional societies and guilds (Ogboni, Gelefe, Egungun kwk)Yorubaland and among the Fon and Ewe kwk in Afrika

Isese is not ecumenical. Its only racist when it applies to black culture. Jews exclude people from their culture every day because they say their God tells them to do this. Nobody ever questions them.

Do you think it makes a difference in whether one communicates with the Orisa in Yoruba or English? If the answer is no then you would also have to conclude it would makes no difference in speaking English or Japanese in front of a Shinto Shrine. None of their deities would recognize you or understand what you were saying.

Egun means bone. Why do you think it means bone? Why is there a specific language for Egun?

Yes, Awos are Initiating"" non-Blacks but look at the curre nt state of affairs of their nation, towns and villages. They have little to no support from their Egun and Orisa because they are breaking Ewoo (taboos). Ibadan was once burned to the ground for breaking taboo of Sango

Again...any Ikin or Ikoko Orisa given to non-Afrikans have no Ase. Why do you think the Awos performing the so-called initiation fail to consultIfa to find out the name of the clan the soul descended from and what taboos to adhere to in addition to inform them whether the soul descended from the male or female line. Its because they can't. They know Ifa wouldn't even recognize outsiders

So no offense, it is Impossible for you to have descended from the Orisa or any Group of Black Africans.

If you can find an Odu that says Whites, Asians or any other Non-Black group can be initiated pleaser show me.

Once again, Traditional cultures are not ecumenical, particularly when it comes to their spiritual system. Show me a culture that is and Ill show you a people who have little to no autonomy


You won't find it with Traditional Japanese Culture. You won't find it with Orthodoxed Jews, You'd be hard pressed to find with the Akan and Fon.

Are you asking if I'm descended from an Oba of Benin city or the Republic of Benin. If its the former the title would indeed an Oba. If its the latter the title be an Axosu Both of which would have to be qualified as a paramount King of just King. Actually I descended from a Baale. But what does this have anything to do with truth?

Speaking of Benin and Obas and chiefs. I know an Axosu who has gone on record to how Fa has been admonishing Yoruba Chiefs and priests for "Initiating ' non-Blacks.Fa says they are losing they're Ase for breaking the aforementioned Taboos.

i
 

Babasola

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Oct 19, 2013
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150
No. I didn't say only Black Afrikans have bones, I asked you why does the word Egun mean bone?

The reason I asked you the question was to make the point that this is a bloodline ancestral religion.

I can't control what you or anyone thinks in their mind about me. Frankly its irrelevant.

I'll say this about you, you seem dedicated in your convictions and i applaud you in the work you say you're doing for Afrikan youth out in the Bay Area.

My contribution in this thread is not to judge your beliefs or lack of knowledge pertaining to Isese but to underscore the misappropriation of Traditional culture and spiritual lore on the part of Elders.

This has little to do with you and everything to do with them. Many of theses Elders and chiefs are the very same incarnate souls who sold their own family members and other Afrikans into slavery.


Peace
 

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