Science and Technology : Do You Believe In UFOs

ZealotX

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Jan 21, 2020
83
34
perhaps I should have been more careful how I said it. Let's think about this.

The bible: "no man has seen God at any time"

I should not have assumed you knew that I knew this already. My apologies. I'd like to go over a few verses with you. But if we're driving in a car and I point to another car and say "that's Billy Bob" I don't mean Billy Bob IS the car. I mean it's his car; presumably with Billy Bob inside. This is how I'm speaking of YHWH in Exodus. It's God. But the idea is that God is hidden within these things. But this set up makes it very easy for people to deceive others, saying God is here or there. I could be poetic and say God is in all things, but that's not me talking about a personal god but rather God as a metaphor to represent a greater concept or understanding of a connective and living universe.

But enough of that. Let's get to some biblical texts!

Exodus 13:21-22
The LORD was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night. He did not take away the pillar of cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.

in a cloud, in a pillar of fire. So this gives the impression that these things are like a chariot (chariots of fire...) of sorts. And one could easily, the way its written, disconnect this from a mountain and think its like a UFO. Wouldn't blame anyone for that because the fault is on the part of the writer.

Job 22:14
'Clouds are a hiding place for Him, so that He cannot see; And He walks on the vault of heaven.'

Again... the belief is that God is hidden in the clouds so no one can see him.

Nahum 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, And the LORD will by no means leave the guilty unpunished In whirlwind and storm is His way, And clouds are the dust beneath His feet.

Again... the idea is that he's up in the clouds looking down on humanity. Not even in space... but actually above the clouds.

Exodus 16:10
It came about as Aaron spoke to the whole congregation of the sons of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

again... "in" the cloud.

Revelation 14:14
Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

Here I'm just showing you how the mythology that includes clouds extends to the NT and a vision of Jesus. The mythology combines these elements but can use any of these elements separately! The volcano is like... voltron. It has parts to it and those parts can be separated depending on the story but "God" is still connected with each of the separate ideas. This is why you see them making it a big deal that there is a cloud in the temple.

Leviticus 16:2
The LORD said to Moses: "Tell your brother Aaron that he shall not enter at any time into the holy place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, or he will die; for I will appear in the cloud over the mercy seat.


1 Kings 8:10-12
It happened that when the priests came from the holy place, the cloud filled the house of the LORD, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD. Then Solomon said, "The LORD has said that He would dwell in the thick cloud.

Deuteronomy 4:11
"You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the very heart of the heavens: darkness, cloud and thick gloom.

This isn't a volcano? Of course it is. We both know it was. This is not a text anyone could deny. And this was the point I was making. That they were guided by a volcano and attributing its effects to God. The thunder was like his voice, he "touched the mountain" and it quaked and fire yada yada yada, not to dimish how terrifying it must have been, but that was a volcano. And if they understood this as a natural occurance then I don't think they would have written about it precisely this way, in which it looks like a volcano to us, but they separate the cloud, the fire, and warn about getting too close lest God "break out" (explode...erupt) against them as if he had no control over who he was killing. They were sold on the idea that God was there, that he had touched down, that Moses had gone to talk to him and had come back with the 10 commandments written by the very finger of God.

Because Moses lied.

Whatever you think happened up there, There was no fiery finger that wrote the 10 commandments. There are elements of the story that are obviously natural and true. But then the myth starts kicking in and all these fictional elements are added to make it seem like there was interaction and instruction. And who did that benefit? Moses. That's why I'm saying he was a liar and a conman. If he was only saying God is in the mountains and the trees and the water and the sun then he would be a normal dude. But no, he was saying, God is over there so let's go over there and talk to him and while we're there Imma go up and chat with the big man alone while yall stay down here and be afraid. And then I'm going to come back down and tell you all the things that God said which are somewhat similar to what I learned in Egypt. Go figure.

But based on ALL the verses I've quoted...

Can we now agree that Sinai/Horeb or wherever they went, was an active volcano?

Can we agree on this point?
 

ZealotX

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Jan 21, 2020
83
34
I also like this conversation because I'm now discovering more of this "volcano lore" in more scriptures. So I'm increasing my knowledge at the same time.
 

frankster

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Aug 3, 2014
553
77
perhaps I should have been more careful how I said it. Let's think about this.

The bible: "no man has seen God at any time"
Matthew 5:8
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God"

I should not have assumed you knew that I knew this already. My apologies. I'd like to go over a few verses with you. But if we're driving in a car and I point to another car and say "that's Billy Bob" I don't mean Billy Bob IS the car. I mean it's his car; presumably with Billy Bob inside. This is how I'm speaking of YHWH in Exodus. It's God. But the idea is that God is hidden within these things
Yes that is understandable, though a little inaccurate, when you say the following...."but that his presence was the fire."
Nevertheless I know and understand what you now mean...God Is in The Fire Not the Fire - correct??

But this set up makes it very easy for people to deceive others, saying God is here or there. I could be poetic and say God is in all things, but that's not me talking about a personal god but rather God as a metaphor to represent a greater concept or understanding of a connective and living universe.
That is not being poetic....that is the heart and soul of Judaism - the Spirit.
It is not a Metaphor....You do not have a personal god - But you do have Personal Relationship with God. Whether you know, understand, or acknowledge that relationship.


But enough of that. Let's get to some biblical texts!

Exodus 13:21-22
The LORD was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night. He did not take away the pillar of cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.

in a cloud, in a pillar of fire. So this gives the impression that these things are like a chariot (chariots of fire...) of sorts. And one could easily, the way its written, disconnect this from a mountain and think its like a UFO. Wouldn't blame anyone for that because the fault is on the part of the writer.

Job 22:14
'Clouds are a hiding place for Him, so that He cannot see; And He walks on the vault of heaven.'

Again... the belief is that God is hidden in the clouds so no one can see him.

Nahum 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, And the LORD will by no means leave the guilty unpunished In whirlwind and storm is His way, And clouds are the dust beneath His feet.

Again... the idea is that he's up in the clouds looking down on humanity. Not even in space... but actually above the clouds.

Exodus 16:10
It came about as Aaron spoke to the whole congregation of the sons of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

again... "in" the cloud.

Revelation 14:14
Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

Here I'm just showing you how the mythology that includes clouds extends to the NT and a vision of Jesus. The mythology combines these elements but can use any of these elements separately! The volcano is like... voltron. It has parts to it and those parts can be separated depending on the story but "God" is still connected with each of the separate ideas. This is why you see them making it a big deal that there is a cloud in the temple.

Understood God is in the cloud/fire not the cloud/fire ....you have corrected that.

Leviticus 16:2
The LORD said to Moses: "Tell your brother Aaron that he shall not enter at any time into the holy place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, or he will die; for I will appear in the cloud over the mercy seat.


1 Kings 8:10-12
It happened that when the priests came from the holy place, the cloud filled the house of the LORD, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD. Then Solomon said, "The LORD has said that He would dwell in the thick cloud.

Deuteronomy 4:11
"You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the very heart of the heavens: darkness, cloud and thick gloom.

This isn't a volcano? Of course it is. We both know it was. This is not a text anyone could deny. And this was the point I was making. That they were guided by a volcano and attributing its effects to God. The thunder was like his voice, he "touched the mountain" and it quaked and fire yada yada yada, not to dimish how terrifying it must have been, but that was a volcano. And if they understood this as a natural occurance then I don't think they would have written about it precisely this way, in which it looks like a volcano to us, but they separate the cloud, the fire, and warn about getting too close lest God "break out" (explode...erupt) against them as if he had no control over who he was killing. They were sold on the idea that God was there, that he had touched down, that Moses had gone to talk to him and had come back with the 10 commandments written by the very finger of God.

The two first verses above in no way references a volcano, except the Dueteronomy quote.



Because Moses lied.

Whatever you think happened up there, There was no fiery finger that wrote the 10 commandments. There are elements of the story that are obviously natural and true. But then the myth starts kicking in and all these fictional elements are added to make it seem like there was interaction and instruction. And who did that benefit? Moses. That's why I'm saying he was a liar and a conman. If he was only saying God is in the mountains and the trees and the water and the sun then he would be a normal dude. But no, he was saying, God is over there so let's go over there and talk to him and while we're there Imma go up and chat with the big man alone while yall stay down here and be afraid. And then I'm going to come back down and tell you all the things that God said which are somewhat similar to what I learned in Egypt. Go figure.

But based on ALL the verses I've quoted...
I never said it could not be a volcano.....but that there are some verses, describing the phenomenon experience by Moses that remain inconsistent with a volcano. So when taken altogether if we are to accept Moses statements as truth - then in no way could be a volcano.

Can we now agree that Sinai/Horeb or wherever they went, was an active volcano?

Can we agree on this point?
I do not accept the premise that Moses is a Liar.
If I did accept that premise, then I could not then accept any part of his story as true

What Moses describe in total, was not a Volcano....
Yes if taken apart, some parts would fit the description of what is a volcano
 
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