Science and Technology : Do You Believe In UFOs

ogoun

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MEMBER
Jun 14, 2018
1,176
440
:11100:i had some "burning bush" back in the day........
There are serious thinkers and scholars that think many of the revelations in the Bible, burning bushes, gods walking out of clouds, etc, were seen because of ingression of mind altering plants in various forms. Not the lest of because of the fanciful forms described by many different texts of the period. The Egyptians so held in high regard some of those plants they notably engraved both the Blue Water Lily and the Acacia tree* on their monuments and in their temples.
All civilizations predating the New Testament and certainly during the time of the Old Testament knew of one and more ways to alter conscience. It''d be hard to believe 'someone' wasn't eating or inhaling those plants and thus seeing visions and finding God.

* The Acacia tree, the burning bush.
Also known as the tree of life by the Egyptians.
Also known to contain usable levels of DMT in it's root bark..........watch the tree burn and yet it is still there after the vision passes.
 

ZealotX

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MEMBER
Jan 21, 2020
83
34
If it is unclear to you that this is a mythology created around a volcano, after this post, then I will relent lol. There will be no convincing you.

"If it is spewing molten lava most people will not live within a certain distance from it....I already state that contrary to what you stated that people cannot get relatively close to a volcano"
If the only danger is lava, then sure. However, if there is a significant amount of sulfuric dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, carbon dioxide and monoxide, and hydrocholoric acid... then no. 37 people were killed when carbon dioxide was released from Lake Monoun. So I will say you are correct but only in certain cases. People generally test for the concentration of these gases before approaching without protective gear.

And when I'm talking about volcanoes I'm not talking about a volcano that is necessarily spewing any volcanic material. This happens when pressure builds to a certain point. If gases are being vented at different places (such as an area where there might be a bush) then you might have an active volcano that doesn't erupt. You can also have a caldera form vs a crater. Not all volcanoes have the same behavior. The bible says that Horeb was on the other side of the wilderness so it was already a far enough distance to where Jethro could visit it without living too close. But that doesn't mean he saw magma or lava flows. He may have only seen a light coming from the top of the mountain. Hence, "mountain of God".

Now if I cannot convince you that a "mountain of God" is a volcano and you just want to believe that gods or aliens descend on mountains, vs level ground at lower elevations, and it just causes all of the same effects as a volcano, then that's fine. We can agree to disagree.


"So using your own logic, you have answered your own question, Raging mountains they let out smoke .....not a pillar of smoke that stands a the entrance to a tend or between two encampments"
"raging mountains" do let out a pillar of smoke, that in large quantity, would look like a cloud. But the same EFFECT can be achieved by making a bonfire. What I'm saying to you is that they got the idea for the desired EFFECT from the volcano and then reproduced the EFFECT to a smaller degree at the site of the temple so that people would assume that the same EFFECT on the mountain, which they were told was God descending, would be likewise assumed to be the same thing happening at the temple. If you want to believe this was actually God, that's fine. We can agree to disagree. What I'm saying is that it is a lie and I have said that Moses was a con man. Either there was smoke there because they wanted people to think God was there and so they simply created a fire by burning the corpses of a large number of animals, or this was simply written this way. However, since the burnt offerings are mentioned prior to the "pillar of cloud" at the temple, occam's razor would suggest it is the former.

Most of the patriarchs are liars according to the bible so I really have no basis to believe that they would not deceive the people just as Jacob deceived his own father on his deathbed, just as Abraham deceived the pharoah concerning Sarah, Joseph was deceived by his brothers and deceived them in return, etc. In nearly every story during that time deception is a common theme. And yet believers feel comfortable believing that God came down on a mountain in fire, rather than believing it was a volcano and that people about it.

"Offering up "burnt offering" is an act of Worship, and thee God they are worshipping is Yahweh
Exodus 18
12 And Jethro, Moses' father in law, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God: and Aaron came, and all the elders of Israel, to eat bread with Moses' father in law before God."

This makes the story even more suspect. First of all, it is the WRITER that's suggesting that Jethro sacrificed to Moses's God. There's no reason to assume this. It is more likely that both men were talking about the same God because of the connection to the same mountain. If you say God lives on Mount Olympus and his name is Ted, if I am the one who showed you where mount olympus was and I was already a priest of the god on mount olympus, trust that I have no obligation to call my god, that I was already worshiping before you arrived and before you dreamed of a different name, to call my god "Ted". Going to war over calling the same deity who lives in the same place, by a different name, would be stupid when that deity never spoke to either of you and told you what his name was. I don't believe Moses for the simple fact he claimed that God spoke to him and said his name was "I will be what I will be" but never said a thing about Moses having multiple wives, or slavery, or taking women as spoils of war; and especially not saying anything about Moses wanting to kill people who didn't believe MOSES that God was talking to him; therefore disbelieving in "Yahweh" because Yahweh was invented by Moses. We are led to believe this was all the same God as the patriarchs who came before them. Why? Because Moses. Moses said so and so we believed it. He claims this God talked to Adam and Abraham but never revealed his name. And so that's why there's no competing gods out there. But actually, maybe there are but you wouldn't know because anyone who spoke against the Mosaic creation would be executed. You may take their silence on the matter to mean agreement. I don't know. I take their silence to mean that those who disagreed were in fear for their lives after seeing the GENOCIDE that Moses conducted against his own people. And for me this says, this is not a "good guy" that you should trust. I don't know. Maybe it's just me that sees genocide and feels like the architect of that genocide isn't trustworthy.


"Exactly if it was a "burning bush" he could probable not see it, but if as you content it is a volcano how could he not see it"
I don't know what your mind's eye sees when I talk about volcanoes but like I said before they don't all look or behave the same way. A volcano can have


when you go through the slides you can see different shapes. If you go to slide 5 you can see that there is a magma chamber from which lava can come up and branch like a tree. Depending on the ground you could have deep fissures where gas is able to find its way out even though the magma cannot. Lava can also erupt out of a fissure type of vent but if you investigate, you'll see the technical term for what I'm talking about is called a "fumarole".



As you can see in the image above, a fumerolde would release gases. If it wasn't windy these cases could even look like a pillar of cloud. I'm not saying there was a fumerole outside the temple. What I'm saying is that this is the most likely origin of the IDEAS that the story uses. It likely influenced the burning bush as well as the warnings given to the Israelites that they should stay away from the mountain or else they could die. So we're supposed to believe that the presence of God is dangerous to sinful humans, even though God is omnipresent, and that his presence kills indiscriminately and he cannot protect people from it. Sorry, that still sounds very much like a volcano to me.

"Does volcanic Smoke tend to go up or down?"
Now you're taking this even more literally than the text is suggesting. It's not saying the smoke was starting from the sky and condensed as it came down. It's simply saying that "God came down" and that this descent was visibly shielded by the cloud. We're talking about a PILLAR (column) of cloud, not some kind of ufo bubble disc. And it should be pointed out that no one knows what God looks like so assuming they saw god coming down inside the cloud is reaching. The only description that isn't total invisibility is Moses's description on Sinai.

Let's look at the setup.

Exodus 19
9 And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord.

GOD SAYS THE PEOPLE WOULD HEAR HIM SPEAK TO MOSES. Remember that.

11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

ALL THE PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO SEE...

12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:

BUT NO ONE WAS ALLOWED TO SEE... or at least to go on the mountain.

13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

EXECUTION. Remember this.

16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

SO WHAT THE PEOPLE HEARD WAS THUNDER and a man made instrument and they trembled with fear because they thought it was God talking.

17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.

So they were LED by Moses to a place where they were ALLOWED to view the cloud, but NOT to see God.

18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

THE SMOKE ASCENDED from the mountain because it was produced by FIRE. And the mountain quaked because of the pressure. THIS IS A VOLCANO!!! There is no way around it bro. There is no other way to interpret this. It is obviously a volcano. Eruptions can produce earthquakes, thunder, and lightning. They were simply conned into thinking God "came down" and that's why all this was happening; instead of the very scientific reasons caused by pressurized magma and gas trapped underground.

21 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish.

But why would they perish? Because you're going to kill them for looking at you? What are you? Naked? God, here, presents himself as both unable to kill (thus requiring executions for those touching the mount), and an ineffective murderer because seeing God is not a sin and not all of them would die if they broke through to see. It just says "many of them", not "all of them". So some would survive. But why is all this threat even necessary? Is God radioactive? Or is it because Moses had already been there when it wasn't erupting and new where it was safe to walk and knew where there was a place to hide behind at the top.

24 And the Lord said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the Lord, lest he break forth upon them.

You say volcanoes were common knowledge but all I see here is fear that the people would literally kill themselves trying to see one close up because they didn't know what a volcano was. If they did, they would surely have said, "yo this is a volcano, Moses. Why are you trying to convince us its really God making this mountain look and behave like a volcano?" No one said anything like that because they had zero experience with a volcano. And it wasn't a short jog up to the top. Maybe for Moses, since he probably knew where to go, but he's told to "go down" to warn the people about coming up. So obviously, it didn't take 40 days to deliver that warning because that would have been too late.

And of course this isn't the only time a natural phenomenon is tied to the heaven hosts. Look at the story of Elijah.

2 Kings 2:7-11
7 And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.

8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.

Hmmm... where did we see this trick before?

11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Now... you could choose to believe that Elijah flew up into space, where he would have died before even leaving the atmosphere unless he was in some kind of space craft to protect his physical body. And you could ignore the fact that Elijah is written about like Gandalf the Grey and that the same "miracle" is performed just to cross over some water. And of course it sounds like what would happen if you dropped a large stick on a small puddle. If the water is able to disperse over uneven ground then you could effectively split the puddle in two on either side ("hither and thither") of the stick. But the idea for this came from the Mosaic story. It doesn't mean it happened at all. But what better way to end the life of a prophet than to make up a story about him preforming one last miracle before miraculously being escorted into heaven? It's like they had already built him up so much that they couldn't just say "and Elijah died."

This is a mythology built on the idea of a Sorcerer. There are other stories involving necromancy and divination. All these things were COMMON ideas, from different cultures and religions and people. The writers of the bible took these stories and simply connected them to a single deity. And even that wasn't as smooth as one would imagine because there seems to be a definite divide between the Yahwist and Elohist camps. And you can also see what happened with Asherah as a "consort" of Yahweh. The brilliance of the scribes is the fact that their lying pen made it seem like the people were always unified in their theology. But they never were.

"Now you quoting excerpts that support what I have said earlier and you said was not so....that it was Jethro who told Moses about the 'burning bush'..... explain yourself?"
No need. You're confusing "burning bush" with Mount Horeb, the "mountain of God". I'm saying Jethro told Moses about the mountain and probably even led him up on different occassions to sacrifice. As you can read in the article below, it would have to be a very slow burning volcano to throw something in and see it burn, but you'd also have to be careful of whatever you're tossing in exploding.


You should especially watch the video of the can of ravioli. Let's say this was a bush. The water content in some bushes resist burning. Just like if you're starting a fire you're supposed to find dead twigs to use and kindling because often the live vegetation will mainly steam until it dries out.


So a live bush will burn slow enough to have several conversations. A thick but dead branch will burn slow. A twig will burn quickly. So obviously no one is making campfires with a bunch of wood that is still green and wet on the inside. You'll produce a lot of smoke... but its not really going to burn. So you can call this some kind of metaphysical act of God but its just basic science.

But this is why there is no reason to believe the bush was always burning like some kind of light switch. And if this was a small baobab tree (no reason to believe it is even though its the right region and these trees can live for an incredibly long time) then it would have been especially fire resistant.


It clearly says that Moses saw the bush and decided to investigate; not that Jethro mentioned to him and he went to go see it. If you think about it, the underground roots, burrowing through the dirt and dried out soil could have found a pocket of magma or hot gas underneath which could have given the heat and gas a pathway to the surface. But the water content of the bush may have allowed it to burn but not be "consumed". This would be different from a fire that is able to make direct contact with the leaves. Bible illustrators always show the whole bush on fire but not being consumed, but there is no reason to believe it looked like that. It may have just looked like it was smoking.
 

frankster

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Aug 3, 2014
553
77
If it is unclear to you that this is a mythology created around a volcano, after this post, then I will relent lol. There will be no convincing you.
All myth have some truth to it.
Look you believe Mose was a liar and a conman, and that most ancient people were simpletons, fools and ignorant
I believe Moses was trying to relate an actual experience he had

If the only danger is lava, then sure. However, if there is a significant amount of sulfuric dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, carbon dioxide and monoxide, and hydrocholoric acid... then no. 37 people were killed when carbon dioxide was released from Lake Monoun. So I will say you are correct but only in certain cases. People generally test for the concentration of these gases before approaching without protective gear.
Thanks

And when I'm talking about volcanoes I'm not talking about a volcano that is necessarily spewing any volcanic material. This happens when pressure builds to a certain point. If gases are being vented at different places (such as an area where there might be a bush) then you might have an active volcano that doesn't erupt. You can also have a caldera form vs a crater. Not all volcanoes have the same behavior. The bible says that Horeb was on the other side of the wilderness so it was already a far enough distance to where Jethro could visit it without living too close. But that doesn't mean he saw magma or lava flows. He may have only seen a light coming from the top of the mountain. Hence, "mountain of God".

Now if I cannot convince you that a "mountain of God" is a volcano and you just want to believe that gods or aliens descend on mountains, vs level ground at lower elevations, and it just causes all of the same effects as a volcano, then that's fine. We can agree to disagree.
I guess we will just have to do that, your entire argument is based on the premise that
1. Moses is a liar and a conman
2. That common folks at the time did not know what a volcano was and either mistook it for a God or accept it as God.


"raging mountains" do let out a pillar of smoke, that in large quantity, would look like a cloud. But the same EFFECT can be achieved by making a bonfire. What I'm saying to you is that they got the idea for the desired EFFECT from the volcano and then reproduced the EFFECT to a smaller degree at the site of the temple so that people would assume that the same EFFECT on the mountain, which they were told was God descending, would be likewise assumed to be the same thing happening at the temple. If you want to believe this was actually God, that's fine. We can agree to disagree. What I'm saying is that it is a lie and I have said that Moses was a con man. Either there was smoke there because they wanted people to think God was there and so they simply created a fire by burning the corpses of a large number of animals, or this was simply written this way. However, since the burnt offerings are mentioned prior to the "pillar of cloud" at the temple, occam's razor would suggest it is the former.
At first you thought that they did not even know what a Volcano was now you realize that they had a term for it "Raging Mountains". Since they have a term for it, then it is safe to assume it is general Knowledge - the all knew what a volcano is..
To say that they thought the Volcano was God, because the named it the "Mountain of God", is not to realize that even the days of the week, were names of God or some how related to God....many things are Given the name that equates it with God in some it do not mean they think it is God.

Most of the patriarchs are liars according to the bible so I really have no basis to believe that they would not deceive the people just as Jacob deceived his own father on his deathbed, just as Abraham deceived the pharoah concerning Sarah, Joseph was deceived by his brothers and deceived them in return, etc. In nearly every story during that time deception is a common theme. And yet believers feel comfortable believing that God came down on a mountain in fire, rather than believing it was a volcano and that people about it.
There is a deeper meaning to what you think are lies....but this is not the time to answer those questions


This makes the story even more suspect. First of all, it is the WRITER that's suggesting that Jethro sacrificed to Moses's God. There's no reason to assume this. It is more likely that both men were talking about the same God because of the connection to the same mountain. If you say God lives on Mount Olympus and his name is Ted, if I am the one who showed you where mount olympus was and I was already a priest of the god on mount olympus, trust that I have no obligation to call my god, that I was already worshiping before you arrived and before you dreamed of a different name, to call my god "Ted". Going to war over calling the same deity who lives in the same place, by a different name, would be stupid when that deity never spoke to either of you and told you what his name was. I don't believe Moses for the simple fact he claimed that God spoke to him and said his name was "I will be what I will be" but never said a thing about Moses having multiple wives, or slavery, or taking women as spoils of war; and especially not saying anything about Moses wanting to kill people who didn't believe MOSES that God was talking to him; therefore disbelieving in "Yahweh" because Yahweh was invented by Moses. We are led to believe this was all the same God as the patriarchs who came before them. Why? Because Moses. Moses said so and so we believed it. He claims this God talked to Adam and Abraham but never revealed his name. And so that's why there's no competing gods out there. But actually, maybe there are but you wouldn't know because anyone who spoke against the Mosaic creation would be executed. You may take their silence on the matter to mean agreement. I don't know. I take their silence to mean that those who disagreed were in fear for their lives after seeing the GENOCIDE that Moses conducted against his own people. And for me this says, this is not a "good guy" that you should trust. I don't know. Maybe it's just me that sees genocide and feels like the architect of that genocide isn't trustworthy.
You are all over the place here...there is an answer for all that confounds you but your cup is too full for me to attempt to answered them as you have too many questions. Each question can only be dealt with on its own first then in relationship to the rest. I can only hope that as we exchange info your own research will ferret out the answers you seek.
The fact of the matter is that they were worshipping the same God
Allah and Yahweh is the same God, Jews, Christians and Muslims fight all the time.



I don't know what your mind's eye sees when I talk about volcanoes but like I said before they don't all look or behave the same way. A volcano can have


when you go through the slides you can see different shapes. If you go to slide 5 you can see that there is a magma chamber from which lava can come up and branch like a tree. Depending on the ground you could have deep fissures where gas is able to find its way out even though the magma cannot. Lava can also erupt out of a fissure type of vent but if you investigate, you'll see the technical term for what I'm talking about is called a "fumarole".



As you can see in the image above, a fumerolde would release gases. If it wasn't windy these cases could even look like a pillar of cloud. I'm not saying there was a fumerole outside the temple. What I'm saying is that this is the most likely origin of the IDEAS that the story uses. It likely influenced the burning bush as well as the warnings given to the Israelites that they should stay away from the mountain or else they could die. So we're supposed to believe that the presence of God is dangerous to sinful humans, even though God is omnipresent, and that his presence kills indiscriminately and he cannot protect people from it. Sorry, that still sounds very much like a volcano to me.
Oh! Yes even Moses was told to come no closer whilst at the same time told to remove his sandals, for the place where he stood was Holy Ground....Holy Ground can be deadly



Now you're taking this even more literally than the text is suggesting. It's not saying the smoke was starting from the sky and condensed as it came down. It's simply saying that "God came down" and that this descent was visibly shielded by the cloud. We're talking about a PILLAR (column) of cloud, not some kind of ufo bubble disc. And it should be pointed out that no one knows what God looks like so assuming they saw god coming down inside the cloud is reaching. The only description that isn't total invisibility is Moses's description on Sinai.

Let's look at the setup.

Exodus 19
9 And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord.

If this was Volcanic smoke would it not kill all who come in contact with it?
So if as you contend that it was volcanic smoke how did Moses and the Priests survive It?

GOD SAYS THE PEOPLE WOULD HEAR HIM SPEAK TO MOSES. Remember that.

11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

ALL THE PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO SEE...

12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:

BUT NO ONE WAS ALLOWED TO SEE... or at least to go on the mountain.

13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

EXECUTION. Remember this.

16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

SO WHAT THE PEOPLE HEARD WAS THUNDER and a man made instrument and they trembled with fear because they thought it was God talking.

17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.

So they were LED by Moses to a place where they were ALLOWED to view the cloud, but NOT to see God.

18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

THE SMOKE ASCENDED from the mountain because it was produced by FIRE. And the mountain quaked because of the pressure. THIS IS A VOLCANO!!! There is no way around it bro. There is no other way to interpret this. It is obviously a volcano. Eruptions can produce earthquakes, thunder, and lightning. They were simply conned into thinking God "came down" and that's why all this was happening; instead of the very scientific reasons caused by pressurized magma and gas trapped underground.

21 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish.

But why would they perish? Because you're going to kill them for looking at you? What are you? Naked? God, here, presents himself as both unable to kill (thus requiring executions for those touching the mount), and an ineffective murderer because seeing God is not a sin and not all of them would die if they broke through to see. It just says "many of them", not "all of them". So some would survive. But why is all this threat even necessary? Is God radioactive? Or is it because Moses had already been there when it wasn't erupting and new where it was safe to walk and knew where there was a place to hide behind at the top.

24 And the Lord said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the Lord, lest he break forth upon them.

You say volcanoes were common knowledge but all I see here is fear that the people would literally kill themselves trying to see one close up because they didn't know what a volcano was. If they did, they would surely have said, "yo this is a volcano, Moses. Why are you trying to convince us its really God making this mountain look and behave like a volcano?" No one said anything like that because they had zero experience with a volcano. And it wasn't a short jog up to the top. Maybe for Moses, since he probably knew where to go, but he's told to "go down" to warn the people about coming up. So obviously, it didn't take 40 days to deliver that warning because that would have been too late.

And of course this isn't the only time a natural phenomenon is tied to the heaven hosts. Look at the story of Elijah.

2 Kings 2:7-11
7 And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.

8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.

Hmmm... where did we see this trick before?

11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Now... you could choose to believe that Elijah flew up into space, where he would have died before even leaving the atmosphere unless he was in some kind of space craft to protect his physical body. And you could ignore the fact that Elijah is written about like Gandalf the Grey and that the same "miracle" is performed just to cross over some water. And of course it sounds like what would happen if you dropped a large stick on a small puddle. If the water is able to disperse over uneven ground then you could effectively split the puddle in two on either side ("hither and thither") of the stick. But the idea for this came from the Mosaic story. It doesn't mean it happened at all. But what better way to end the life of a prophet than to make up a story about him preforming one last miracle before miraculously being escorted into heaven? It's like they had already built him up so much that they couldn't just say "and Elijah died."

This is a mythology built on the idea of a Sorcerer. There are other stories involving necromancy and divination. All these things were COMMON ideas, from different cultures and religions and people. The writers of the bible took these stories and simply connected them to a single deity. And even that wasn't as smooth as one would imagine because there seems to be a definite divide between the Yahwist and Elohist camps. And you can also see what happened with Asherah as a "consort" of Yahweh. The brilliance of the scribes is the fact that their lying pen made it seem like the people were always unified in their theology. But they never were.
The Trojan war was a Myth until they found Troy



No need. You're confusing "burning bush" with Mount Horeb, the "mountain of God". I'm saying Jethro told Moses about the mountain and probably even led him up on different occassions to sacrifice. As you can read in the article below, it would have to be a very slow burning volcano to throw something in and see it burn, but you'd also have to be careful of whatever you're tossing in exploding.


You should especially watch the video of the can of ravioli. Let's say this was a bush. The water content in some bushes resist burning. Just like if you're starting a fire you're supposed to find dead twigs to use and kindling because often the live vegetation will mainly steam until it dries out.


So a live bush will burn slow enough to have several conversations. A thick but dead branch will burn slow. A twig will burn quickly. So obviously no one is making campfires with a bunch of wood that is still green and wet on the inside. You'll produce a lot of smoke... but its not really going to burn. So you can call this some kind of metaphysical act of God but its just basic science.
So you think people who burn wood as a daily routine would not also know this???? LOL

But this is why there is no reason to believe the bush was always burning like some kind of light switch. And if this was a small baobab tree (no reason to believe it is even though its the right region and these trees can live for an incredibly long time) then it would have been especially fire resistant.


It clearly says that Moses saw the bush and decided to investigate; not that Jethro mentioned to him and he went to go see it. If you think about it, the underground roots, burrowing through the dirt and dried out soil could have found a pocket of magma or hot gas underneath which could have given the heat and gas a pathway to the surface. But the water content of the bush may have allowed it to burn but not be "consumed". This would be different from a fire that is able to make direct contact with the leaves. Bible illustrators always show the whole bush on fire but not being consumed, but there is no reason to believe it looked like that. It may have just looked like it was smoking.
If Jethro is Going to tell Moses about the dangers of the mountain it simply means he knows the mountains and what on it, this would be especially true if as you content there was a volcano on the mountain.
 
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