Amun-Ra : Celibacy at Issue?

dnommo

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Mar 19, 2001
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Ra,

You have offered another key issue and the room has responded. So much has been said so far that there really is no more that i could offer on the subject. As for celibacy in the priesthood? I feel that priest should be able to marry, not only for the reasons here but simply for the fact that i find it difficult to believe that someone could counsel or offer biblical advice to a married couple if they themselves have not experienced the ups and downs of marriage. Many couples are left to suufer through relationships because the single, celibate priest has no real solution to their marital problems. Marriage is more than a spoken concept but the most intimate relationship one could ever experience. How could someone who is committed to a life of singleness ever understand the principles of marriage?

Just a question i pondered for a while now...
 

Amun-Ra

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Another Can of Worms

D:

You open a new can of worms when you bring the marriage equation into the formula. You are right. Despite how much training one recieves in marriage counseling, family counseling and psychology--it is still difficult to counsel couples in a situation that the counselor has never experienced. The very fact that they take a vow of celibacy, which by the means more than the accepted sexual connotation, removes the priest from reality of relationship. Surely, a great deal can be learned through observation, but relations are difficult to judge from the outside even by a trained observer. The same could said of child rearing. It is difficult to understand the perils of parenthood without ever having had children. The attachments, both emotional and social, aren't the same. This would be another area.

On the other hand, in other churches where ministers marry, they often make excellent counselors because they have some idea of what rearing a family requires and what it takes to make a relationship work. In addition, because of their belief systems, they are more likely to be more understanding, although that isn't always the case.

Ra

;)
 

dnommo

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And I agree with resounding confidence...

While I believe that at some point in history, celibacy in the piresthood was needed to handle all circumstances, as time went on the situations changed greatly. I look at is as attempting to witness to a group of youth in 2002 with methods used in 1802...

Rome should reevaluate their policies (for those who don't know, celibacy is policy) and update them to better serve the Catholic community.
 

Amun-Ra

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An Interesting Note

Fewpeople notice the marching orders from the church--they are the church and they pass out the orders--otherwise they become another church if they don't agree--as a former Catholic I find it interesting how many Catholics disagree with the Pope, it is interesting because they expect something different--he is tradition and anyone who has been there has represented tradition--I read the Pope's book and although I am in disagreement with just about everything the church stands for, I was not surprised by what he said--he is the keeper of the faith and he will not be swayed by sudden moderness although he has done some things many thought would never happen in the Catholic church, but he is the Pope. He is not going to change at 82 years old.

In any church, it is the young who musty change the church or the church either stagnates and dies and it just dies. You know that I am not of the church, but as an observer it seems to me that the Church in general (all of them) are causing the most harm to themselves by making claims that are clearly against what we know to be true, being unadaptive to the times and offering mystical poltices for those folks who are really searching.

In Bishop Shelby Spong's "Is Fundamentalism Killing Christianity" he makes a very good case how religion, and Christianity in particular needs to move into the 21st century before it drives away all of its membership. Nowadays people think and they are not satisfied with "pie in the sky" religion for "here on earth" problems. Spong comments that today's churches need to tune into the world and offer solution to problems in the "here and now."

Of course, I'm sure you know that Catholic Church attendance is shrinking as is almost every other church attendance. Why? I think it is because people are looking for answers and the church has failed miserably in providing them. Is it too late? Of course not, but the church will need to change, to get in tune with sexuality, to adjust itself to women as real people, to understand that homosexuals are people too, to build community outreach instead of new churches, to feed the hungry and not the coffers, to render unto Ceasar what is Caesar's and vice-versa.

Personally, I think as long as human being are in charge of anything, despite claims to greater leadership, this type of "blinded" thinking displayed by the Catholic Church and others will continue. When someone grasps that idea, church membership in one form or another will sky-rocket. Of course, then you will have a dilemma--we will have church without religion. Maybe that's the problem--too little God--and--far too much religion.

Ra

;)
 

Mike Ramey

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Jul 26, 2002
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I'd like to toss this in...

Let's realize a few key points here:

1) There are MORE perverts in government, in business, in sports, and in far MORE vocations than IN the church. I'm NOT defending the antics of these 'sexual predators', but it seems interesting that when someone OUTSIDE of the church does this dirt, the public doesn't stop buying cars, or eating at restaurants, or stop paying taxes.

2) We DON'T hear about the 'sexual predators' in Mosques, Temples, or the United Nations. Recently, we just had it reported that UN workers have been raping African women and girls. No one prosecuted, no one imprisoned.

3) The Catholic Church has been doing this deed for CENTURIES. In Italy several hundred years ago, it was discovered that anywhere there was a convent and a monestary in close proximity, underground there were HUNDREDS of dead babies because the Priests and Nuns were 'getting their roll on'. The outraged Italians burned BOTH buildings to the ground.

4) It is NOT up to youth to impact or change their church! They don't have the experience, nor the financial wherewithal to accomplish such a feat. Plus, the youth are supposed to be taught, first at home, then at church! If they aren't listening to their parents, what makes you think the church should listen to them? The only way churches change is THROUGH God getting ahold of HIS true people and doing some major house cleaning from the Pulpit to the Pew!

5) Lastly, the Protestant and Catholic churches are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES! Check out the CODE OF CANON LAW that was approved, and is still in place in the Catholic Church. The Pope is viewed as God...which is why the Protestant Church broke from Rome in the first place.

Oh, and lest I forget, the Catholic Church has taken it upon themselves to create their own Bible! Their Bible is NOT the same as in the Protestant ranks.

Mike Ramey
 
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