Black Relationships : Brothers Are You Ready For your woman?

uplift19

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Mar 6, 2006
669
12
SAMURAI36 said:
I'm not exact what (or IF) you're implying here
Is there a reason you are constantly searching for implications behind what is explicitly stated?

And, to yet again clarify, it's not that I'm necessarily waiting for women to gain my interest, or approach me. I would actually like for there to be a share responsibility on the part of both genders.
So how does this work on a practical basis? Doesn't one party have to express interest first? I

Doesn't this negate your previous statement:
Not at all, because you neglected to bold the following few words that completed the thought: "While for sisters this isn't usually a problem that is as evident as it is with men (mainly because women are waiting for someone to approach them, so their immaturity may not be as readily apparant)." This does not conflict with my statement here, and I am not attempting to justify immaturity. Just stating a reason it may not be as apparant.


Uhmmm, since when was this "your advice"? I've been saying this for as long as I've been on this site.
uplift19 said:
They prepared me quite well, just not for this particular society and culture, and especially for the region that I currently live in.
See above.

Again, how much of this is based on experience?
I am not sure how the answer to your simile about school and your situation can be based on experience, but...

Both the medical and technology fields negate this. Because there is so much rapid development in both, institutions are opting for certifications in much of both, instead of degrees.
Not true, as I stated one would probably have to seek education beyond what they wasted their time in school learning (i.e. certifications) if they are ill-equipped for the "real world."

And even on a far more rudimentary level, was what you learned when you were in the 7th grade, the same as what they are learning in that same grade now?
No, they are learning far less.

Nearly every "high-school sweetheart" couple I know is in marital or relationship crisis.
That's not my experience, and "nearly every" is not "every."

Now, if you are speaking about the "high-school sweethearts" of yester-year (that golden generation of yore), then I'd be inclined to agree, except that just points to the point I just made, about some ideals becoming obsolete with the times. I know for a fact that 65% of marriages didn't end in divorce back then, as they do now.
Just because previous generations valued marriage more and may have stayed married longer or in higher numbers does not mean they were not also in "relationship crisis." Women today just have more options, and aren't as defined by their marraiges as they once were. Far less women tolerate cheating and men who spend no time at home (because they are "working") than did in the "yester-year" you speak of.


I'm sure my mother and family were hoping that I would have dating and married a Caribbean woman, which is what they were obviously preparing me for. But alas, my Mother returned to the Essence, and alot of things about my life changed :cry: and now I'm struggling to play catch-up.
So since you've stated you don't think you have the patience/skill necessary to have a long-term relationship with a Black woman at this point, how are you catching up exactly? I mean, besides recognizing the reality you are faced with, what steps have you taken to "play catch-up"? And if you feel you were "prepared" for a Caribbean woman, why not seek out one? There is more I have in mind that I feel relates here, but I will keep it to myself for fear of putting you "on the couch."

Again, this is something not to assume, and I'm sure that some part of you realizes this, as per your college statement in the first place.
Not exactly. The whole college reference (which you started with the whole school example) does not mention experience at all, just knowledge or lack therof.

I too am unsure of how to quantify this, given that you tend to guard your age, background and personal history very closely.
For reasons I believe (if memory serves me correctly) I already shared with you. Either way, unless I go into a detailed history of every relationship I have been in and compare that with what I have learned from others, there is no way to answer your question with any accuracy.

I often feel like, when it come to you and me, I am on the couch, and you are sitting behind the desk, when something tells me that, in some scenarios, the roles should be reversed.

But I digress.......
I'm not trying to come off like some psychotherapist here, but you do ask for solutions or either admittance of responsibility from certain parties on this particular topic. And out of curiosity, in which "scenarios" do you feel I am in need of assistance with my mental health :confused:?

I am rather lost, as to how this pertains not only the specific statement that you quoted from me, but to my sentiment expressed overall? Who else's relationship history save my own, have I been speaking about here? :confused:
You asked me how much of my perspective is based on personal experience, and I tried to answer to the best of my ability, considering I cannot give you any sort of percentage breakdown or anything.
 

SAMURAI36

Banned
MEMBER
Mar 3, 2005
4,762
236
Bay Area
uplift19 said:
Is there a reason you are constantly searching for implications behind what is explicitly stated?
Besides the fact that you omit huge amounts of statements that I made, which in every succeeding response only serves to take away from my perspective, ultimately invalidating it (such as you just did here).......

But specifically regarding these relationship discussions, there always seems to be this unspoken notion amongst the women here--even amongst some of the most enlightened ones--that it all boils down to everything being the man's fault.

Meaning, whatever is wrong with the woman, her problems in her life, her issues, her plights, challenges, etc is the man's fault. However, whatever problems, issues, etc that a man has, it's his own fault.

The sentiment seems to continue to be, "well he is the man, afterall". Since when did being a man/male come to mean being untennable and infallible? When did men stop being human? The notion of making the male the exclusive equivolent to God needs to be done away with.

So how does this work on a practical basis? Doesn't one party have to express interest first?
It's beyond simple: both men and women need to take responsibility for their personal happiness and fulfillment, as it pertains to social interactions with the opposite sex. There has been such an imbalance to this (for decades, centuries, and even millenia long), that this imbalance has become its own psychosis.

The notion that a man is supposed to "take care of everything" is extremely antiquated, and downright stupid.

Not at all, because you neglected to bold the following few words that completed the thought:
Something I've noticed that you do as well.

"While for sisters this isn't usually a problem that is as evident as it is with men (mainly because women are waiting for someone to approach them, so their immaturity may not be as readily apparant)." This does not conflict with my statement here, and I am not attempting to justify immaturity. Just stating a reason it may not be as apparant.
All the more to my point: their not approaching men (for many reasons) is in fact a clear indicator of the lack of said maturity, it doesn't serve to conceal it. Refer back to my statements above, as to the reasons why.


See above.
Just because you restated (albeit in a very oversimplified way) what has been my sentiment all along, doesn't equate it to being "your advice".

I say "oversimplified", because there are factors that you are not seeing at work here.

I ultimately recognize going to the Caribbean, Africa, the South Pacific, Central/South America, and other places as very viable options and alternatives to my predicament with AA Black women in this society. However, because of some things on my end that prevent me from moving to do so.

If it were that simple, I would have moved there a long time ago.

In the meantime, the next best option for me, is to return to a large Metropolitan area, which would possibly house a sufficient number of women from these places, by which to better choose from. This is in fact, something that I am very close to doing at present.

Also, in keeping up with the current trends of the Caribbean, I've begun to notice a slow but steadily sweeping change in the social dynamic. With each succeeding generation, and with the influx of AA culture into the Caribbean (by way of media), the situation is slowly becoming less and less optimal.

I'm noticing that my options, though present, are slowly running out; I'd better make some decisions if I expect to have anything remotely close to what I desire, lest I wait until my next incarnation onto this plane for it. :(

I am not sure how the answer to your simile about school and your situation can be based on experience, but...

Not true, as I stated one would probably have to seek education beyond what they wasted their time in school learning (i.e. certifications) if they are ill-equipped for the "real world."
So then, what forms of "education" should they learn, to prepare them for this "real world", beyond what they've been taught (speaking from the analogy, as well as the specific topic here)?

No, they are learning far less.
Even though I understand what you're saying, this is still not correct.

I am speaking strictly about the cirriculums, and the level of advancement.
I don't know how old you are (an issue here that I'll address shortly), but when I was in the 7th grade, the highest form of math we learned in that grade was geometry. Now, I've heard of 7th graders learning pre-Calc.

So unless you were learning Astral physics during your 7th grade schooling, I doubt you were learning more then, than these kids are learning (or at least, are being expected to learn) now.

This further expounded analogy only further serves my point: society was different back then, and thus the learning curve was different from then to now.

That's not my experience, and "nearly every" is not "every."
Again, we are weighing the benefits of significance, in reference to numbers. And again, the implication of one person's experience(s) negating or outweighing those of another's.

Just because previous generations valued marriage more and may have stayed married longer or in higher numbers does not mean they were not also in "relationship crisis."
No where within my sentiment, was such an implication.

Women today just have more options, and aren't as defined by their marraiges as they once were. Far less women tolerate cheating and men who spend no time at home (because they are "working") than did in the "yester-year" you speak of.
You're proving, like, 3 of my previous points with this one statement.


So since you've stated you don't think you have the patience/skill necessary to have a long-term relationship with a Black woman at this point, how are you catching up exactly?
I didn't say I was catching up, I said:

Essence, and alot of things about my life changed and now I'm struggling to play catch-up.
I mean, besides recognizing the reality you are faced with, what steps have you taken to "play catch-up"?
By recognizing my problem, my shortcomings as a result, evaluating my options, attempting to enhance my experiences towards successful endeavors, gain/share information, etc.

What other methods, besides these, would you recommend?

And if you feel you were "prepared" for a Caribbean woman, why not seek out one?
Oversimplification, yet again. How many Caribbean women do you know in the South? Or any, that are single, that live in the US?

There is more I have in mind that I feel relates here, but I will keep it to myself for fear of putting you "on the couch."
I'll address this point in junction with another one in just a moment.

Not exactly. The whole college reference (which you started with the whole school example) does not mention experience at all, just knowledge or lack therof.
I believe you missed my entire point of the school analogy.

There are some disciplines that remain constant, against one's school in the field of that discipline.

With my being an English major, there is not much about the language and mechanics of language that has changed from the time I first enrolled, to the time I graduated. And even up to now. People don't enter into the realm of education, thinking or realizing that their knowledge in their field of expertise will have expired or become obsolete by the time they finish........Otherwise, I'm sure many of those people would rethink the validity of spending time, mental/intelllectual effort, and HUGE financial resources to that end.

Likewise, I didn't expect the values that my family taught me to be antiquated by the time I was ready to live those values.

For reasons I believe (if memory serves me correctly) I already shared with you.
Yes, I vaguely recall this. But with that vague recollection, is also the vague recollection that I have of feeling like your reasonings (whatever they were, I don't recall them specifically) to not making sense. While I can't in all fairness pressure you into divulging information about yourself, I'm sure you're smart enough to realize the disadvantage that it puts people in, when engaged in discussion with you.

Especially when others are ready to divulge this info at least on some level, and you seem to have no qualms with critiquing it at your leisure.

Either way, unless I go into a detailed history of every relationship I have been in and compare that with what I have learned from others, there is no way to answer your question with any accuracy.
No one is asking for detailed history of anything; letting folk know how old you are, and what region of the planet you reside gives infinitely useful information, in context to your ideals, perspectives, background, etc.

Otherwise, alot of what you say, just becomes abstract, and/or hypothetical, and difficult to take seriously.

I'm not trying to come off like some psychotherapist here, but you do ask for solutions or either admittance of responsibility from certain parties on this particular topic. And out of curiosity, in which "scenarios" do you feel I am in need of assistance with my mental health :confused:?
The problem being, you seem to be psycho-analyzing, while not seeming to be empathizing. It's difficult to administer to someone, without having a level of empathy with the person being administered to.

Alot of what you have said, comes off callous and indifferent; this would be fine if we were talking about the origins of Kemet or the struggles of humanity in the Mesolithic era.

But, we are talking about an individual's feelings, and the struggles therewith.

I simply think that a better "bed-side manner" is in order here. For example, I recall in another thread adjacent to this one, where you compared my situation to your friend's, in saying that mine is more or less "someone who wants to have sex just because he's in his 30's".

Not only is this a most incorrect assessment, but it's incorrectness stems from what seems to be the lack of empathy to the situation.

I suppose you could argue that you are not required to have empathy to a person you don't know, just in order to discuss the topic, but doing so only diminishes any validity your perspective might have.

You asked me how much of my perspective is based on personal experience, and I tried to answer to the best of my ability, considering I cannot give you any sort of percentage breakdown or anything.
But you can give what you have for whatever reason refused to give thus far. I don't know if you've ever been in a relationship, or if you even want one, and if so, of what sort. I also don't know if you're 21 or 41. I don't know what kind of family life you've had, or anything. I really don't know anything about UPLIFT19, beyond the ideologies that she speaks of......All of which increasingly becomes reminiscent of a SONDUKU game.

In employing both my college and psychologist analogies simultaneously, I don't think anyone would seek "counseling" from someone who's experience and knowledge are not up to the task of the scenario for which counseling is being sought.

One can get "street-corner advice" from anywhere. If that's all that this is, then I stand corrected, though I never would have thought so, given the wrapping of intelligentsia that it comes in.

PEACE
 

uplift19

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Mar 6, 2006
669
12
SAMURAI36 said:
Besides the fact that you omit huge amounts of statements that I made, which in every succeeding response only serves to take away from my perspective, ultimately invalidating it (such as you just did here).......
I only do so to save space, not to invalidate anything.

But specifically regarding these relationship discussions, there always seems to be this unspoken notion amongst the women here--even amongst some of the most enlightened ones--that it all boils down to everything being the man's fault (truncated).
This is not my view...

It's beyond simple: both men and women need to take responsibility for their personal happiness and fulfillment, as it pertains to social interactions with the opposite sex. There has been such an imbalance to this (for decades, centuries, and even millenia long), that this imbalance has become its own psychosis.

The notion that a man is supposed to "take care of everything" is extremely antiquated, and downright stupid.
I don't disagree with any of this...

Something I've noticed that you do as well.
Not quite. Again, I don't see the need to repost your entire post and some things are just informational and I do not have a response for every word. You can see it as taking your words out of context, but I'm just trying to save space.

All the more to my point: their not approaching men (for many reasons) is in fact a clear indicator of the lack of said maturity, it doesn't serve to conceal it. Refer back to my statements above, as to the reasons why.
Perhaps in your view, but since we both agree we are in a society that views men as the only assertive party in a relationship then a woman not approaching a man may not be viewed as immature at all.

Just because you restated (albeit in a very oversimplified way) what has been my sentiment all along, doesn't equate it to being "your advice".
I have not read every single post of yours so I would not know what your sentiment has been "all along." If you don't want to call it my "advice" they are my words.

In the meantime, the next best option for me, is to return to a large Metropolitan area, which would possibly house a sufficient number of women from these places, by which to better choose from. This is in fact, something that I am very close to doing at present.
OK...so it seems you have your solution.

So then, what forms of "education" should they learn, to prepare them for this "real world", beyond what they've been taught (speaking from the analogy, as well as the specific topic here)?
This was answered in the analogy as additional certifications that may be necessary for those fields. I have also addressed previously how this relates to relationships in a broader sense in the community as a whole. There are many organizations and professionals dedicated to helping people, speficially Black people, better function within relationships.

Even though I understand what you're saying, this is still not correct.
Well then let me be clear, I live in Maryland and the public schools have worsened and the expectations are clearly lower now. I was learning pre-calc in the 6th grade, but there are several different levels within schools ranging from special ed to gifted classes. Even still, the school system itself has lowered the requirements to pass and ultimately graduate. They are clearly less prepared.

Again, we are weighing the benefits of significance, in reference to numbers. And again, the implication of one person's experience(s) negating or outweighing those of another's.
Obviously we have different experiences which lead to different viewpoints.

No where within my sentiment, was such an implication. You're proving, like, 3 of my previous points with this one statement.
I was making a statement along the lines of your "times they are a changin'" theme here. I am not trying to be disagreeable, as it seems we do agree. I just wanted to point out that people had different reasons for staying married then that are not relevant today. I believe this has more to do with the divorce rate (with no actual statistics on why people divorce) than relationship troubles.

By recognizing my problem, my shortcomings as a result, evaluating my options, attempting to enhance my experiences towards successful endeavors, gain/share information, etc. What other methods, besides these, would you recommend?
I do not feel a response is required here, since in your view my perspective is hard to take seriously and invalid.

Oversimplification, yet again. How many Caribbean women do you know in the South? Or any, that are single, that live in the US?
I don't live in the South, and I don't have that type of data. I think there is futility in trying to discuss this "issue" in general without making simplified statements. I have stated time and time again that in my view, relationships are complicated and personal.

I believe you missed my entire point of the school analogy. (truncated)
I believe I do understand your point. I do think there are some principles of relationships that are constant, like the basic one we hear all the time and I can personally attest to (based on my experience, of course) which is communication. As this back and forth I am having with you right now proves to cause all types of problems if it is ineffective.

Yes, I vaguely recall this. But with that vague recollection, is also the vague recollection that I have of feeling like your reasonings (whatever they were, I don't recall them specifically) to not making sense. While I can't in all fairness pressure you into divulging information about yourself, I'm sure you're smart enough to realize the disadvantage that it puts people in, when engaged in discussion with you.
Why would you have to be at an advantage? Unless we're using the information for personal attacks in our discussions, what value does a wealth of personal information posted on the Internet have?

Especially when others are ready to divulge this info at least on some level, and you seem to have no qualms with critiquing it at your leisure.
I did not think engaging in discussion was a critique of you or anyone else.

No one is asking for detailed history of anything;
Again, this was in response to your question about "how much" of my perspective is based on personal experience. This question is just not possible to answer in my view.

letting folk know how old you are, and what region of the planet you reside gives infinitely useful information, in context to your ideals, perspectives, background, etc. Otherwise, alot of what you say, just becomes abstract, and/or hypothetical, and difficult to take seriously.
I am not sure how useful it is, as generally people take this information and make assumptions or judgments that are unfounded. Ageism, sexism, and other -isms cause people not to take each other seriously based on their biases. You don't have to take me seriously, as that is your perrogative. I don't know why you would take something as hypothetical esp. when I have stated that my perspective is in part based on my personal experiences and that of others I know, which I have gone into some detail about.

Just as there was a perception that I was male, for reasons I am still not clear on, that made people (even you) respond to me in a different way. You even went to my defense in one thread stating that a sister should not be addressed in a certain way.

Even still, I have revealed several times what "region of the planet I reside in" and other information.

The problem being, you seem to be psycho-analyzing, while not seeming to be empathizing. It's difficult to administer to someone, without having a level of empathy with the person being administered to.
Well again, this was not my intention but I tend to think analytically. To empathize with you seems impossible unless you are told that you are right, when in this subject there is no right or wrong.

Alot of what you have said, comes off callous and indifferent; this would be fine if we were talking about the origins of Kemet or the struggles of humanity in the Mesolithic era. But, we are talking about an individual's feelings, and the struggles therewith. I simply think that a better "bed-side manner" is in order here.
So maybe this is why there is a perception that I am male. I also recall you being accused of the same very recently. I am not indifferent, or I would take no interest in any of these topics. If I have come off callous then I apologize as that was not my intent. And quite honestly, you do not seem to approach this issue as if we are dealing with your "feelings" as you are seeking to get others to perceive your "persepctive" as valid. It is difficult to respond to you because you go back and forth between your personal views/experiences and those of the Black community as a whole.

For example, I recall in another thread adjacent to this one, where you compared my situation to your friend's, in saying that mine is more or less "someone who wants to have sex just because he's in his 30's".
I believe that thread was about sex, as you continually reminded me and others of. You made sure to point out that it was an act independent of relationship and the emotions that may or may not be involved. And quite honestly, your area of concern on that topic was about your self-perceived lack of experience.

Not only is this a most incorrect assessment, but it's incorrectness stems from what seems to be the lack of empathy to the situation.
I believe sympathy is what you are looking for, as it is impossible for me to empathise with what you are going through. With the little information you have about me, you do know that I am not male :). I do not want this to turn into a war of words, but my understanding is that empathy requires someone to be able to identify with another's situation.

I suppose you could argue that you are not required to have empathy to a person you don't know, just in order to discuss the topic, but doing so only diminishes any validity your perspective might have.
That is your opinion.

But you can give what you have for whatever reason refused to give thus far. I don't know if you've ever been in a relationship, or if you even want one, and if so, of what sort. I also don't know if you're 21 or 41. I don't know what kind of family life you've had, or anything. I really don't know anything about UPLIFT19, beyond the ideologies that she speaks of......All of which increasingly becomes reminiscent of a SONDUKU game.
Again, I don't think my vital statistics (some of which I have shared btw) are terribly relevant here. I would think from some of my statements it is clear that I have been in a relationship before, how else would I have experience? I'm not 21 or 41, and I have shared some of my family life and other info with others on destee.com on an individual basis. You don't know anything about me (which I don't think is true) either because you have not asked or are not paying attention.

In employing both my college and psychologist analogies simultaneously, I don't think anyone would seek "counseling" from someone who's experience and knowledge are not up to the task of the scenario for which counseling is being sought.

One can get "street-corner advice" from anywhere. If that's all that this is, then I stand corrected, though I never would have thought so, given the wrapping of intelligentsia that it comes in.
I understand you wouldn't take advice from a single person who has never been married on how to make your marriage work (at least I wouldn't) just because they've read some books. This is just not the case with me. Again, you can view what I share however you would like. I was not seeking to be a shrink, but just contribute to a discussion.
 

SAMURAI36

Banned
MEMBER
Mar 3, 2005
4,762
236
Bay Area
uplift19 said:
I only do so to save space, not to invalidate anything.
Fair enough.

This is not my view...
To be honest, I'm really not sure what your view is.......All of this seems like one big "Devil's Advocate" discussion.

Not quite. Again, I don't see the need to repost your entire post and some things are just informational and I do not have a response for every word. You can see it as taking your words out of context, but I'm just trying to save space.
I would agree, but I've seen you more than once, in more than one type of discussion omit information that was vital to my point in your quoting of my response, and then offer a response of your own as if that vital info was never given on my part to begin with.

How do I know if that info was recognized?

Perhaps in your view, but since we both agree we are in a society that views men as the only assertive party in a relationship then a woman not approaching a man may not be viewed as immature at all.
Again, this point is extrapolated from a larger point that I'd made, that once again you've omitted, while still making a point against it.

The questionable maturity on the part of women, that I spoke of before, lies in how they can dress any sort of way, and then expect for men to respond to it differently.

Do you see this as being "mature"?

I have not read every single post of yours so I would not know what your sentiment has been "all along." If you don't want to call it my "advice" they are my words.
Fair enough.

OK...so it seems you have your solution.
How do you know? You said you don't live in the South, but you haven't said where you live (the only allusion you've made thus far, is Maryland). Do you live in a Metropolitan area? Do you know women from these areas?

This was answered in the analogy as additional certifications that may be necessary for those fields. I have also addressed previously how this relates to relationships in a broader sense in the community as a whole.
I don't seem to recall you doing this here.

There are many organizations and professionals dedicated to helping people, speficially Black people, better function within relationships.
What organizations are those? How might someone such as myself, with my sort of issues, get in contact with these orgs?

Well then let me be clear, I live in Maryland and the public schools have worsened and the expectations are clearly lower now. I was learning pre-calc in the 6th grade, but there are several different levels within schools ranging from special ed to gifted classes. Even still, the school system itself has lowered the requirements to pass and ultimately graduate. They are clearly less prepared.
I understood what you meant.

You took pre-calc in the 6th grade, but since I don't know how long ago that was, I can't guage how relevant that is.

Obviously we have different experiences which lead to different viewpoints.
None of which leads to one perspective negating of another, as seems to persist here.

I was making a statement along the lines of your "times they are a changin'" theme here. I am not trying to be disagreeable, as it seems we do agree. I just wanted to point out that people had different reasons for staying married then that are not relevant today. I believe this has more to do with the divorce rate (with no actual statistics on why people divorce) than relationship troubles.
OK, but the divorce rate is the result, and not the cause. People were cheating back then, men were consulting prositutes, etc. I think the answer lies not in why they didn't get divorced, but rather why they chose to stay.

I do not feel a response is required here, since in your view my perspective is hard to take seriously and invalid.
And so, you don't feel inclined to give me reason to take it seriously? Not even for the sake of discussion?

Just because I find it hard to take seriously, doesn't mean that I haven't been trying to.

I don't live in the South, and I don't have that type of data. I think there is futility in trying to discuss this "issue" without making general or simplified statements.
So apparently I've been wasting my time then, giving you background abotu my situation.......Especially when you are only going to truncate it in your responses, and omit its validity.

I believe I do understand your point. I do think there are some principles of relationships that are constant.
Such as.....?

Why would you have to be at an advantage? Unless we're using the information for personal attacks in our discussions, what value does personal information posted on the Internet have?
I think you really underestimate the individual with whom you have been engaging in discussion here.

It's not about having an "advantage" per se, but I am definitely disadvantaged because I don't see how to put your perspectives within context. This is what leads me to not taking it seriously. Do you not see how this is connected?

Besides, how is it that you can ask for access to all sorts of facets of my background, yet I am not free to do the same?

Your very first question to me in this thread was:

If I may pry, what "tools" do you think you need?
I realize that I didn't have to answer your question, which led to the development of this discussion, but for the sake of discussion, I don't see why it was an issue not to.

I did not think engaging in discussion was a critique of you or anyone else.
But that is what you've been doing just the same.

Again, this was in response to your question about "how much" of my perspective is based on personal experience. This question is just not possible to answer in my view.
It would be for me, if I had access to more of your background. In having that, I would be able to quantify this for myself.

Same as you have been doing in regards to me.

I am not sure how useful it is, as generally people take this information and make assumptions or judgments that are unfounded. Ageism, sexism, and other -isms cause people not to take each other seriously based on their biases.
I'm sorry that this has been your experience, but that should not serve as a benchmark for what is supposed to take place. People expect others to share their perspectives, as well as the backgrounds that helps form them.

I'm a person that adheres to etymology, remember? Without knowing you, I need the source of your perspectives, in order to make their application more than an abstract concept.

You don't have to take me seriously, as that is your perrogative.
What then, is the purpose of discussing any of this, in your view? Why ask if you could "pry" to begin with?

I don't know why you would take something as hypothetical esp. when I have stated that my perspective is in part based on my personal experiences and that of others I know, which I have gone into some detail about.
Because that is the very foundation of what taking something as hypothetical is all about.

The crux of this thread, is "BROTHERS, ARE YOU READY FOR YOUR WOMAN?"
How does what your "personal experiences and that of others you know" factor into that, beyond being hypothetical?

Just as there was a perception that I was male, for reasons I am still not clear on, that made people (even you) respond to me in a different way. You even went to my defense in one thread stating that a sister should not be addressed in a certain way.
I agree, but I also "believe" that a Sister should not address others in a certain way as well.

Even still, I have revealed several times what "region of the planet I reside in" and other information.
When, where?

Well again, this was not my intention but I tend to think analytically. To empathize with you seems impossible unless you are told that you are right, when in this subject there is no right or wrong.
This is incorrect. Empathy is not synonymous with validation, even if the former leads to the latter.

So maybe this is why there is a perception that I am male. I also recall you being accused of the same very recently.
Yes, but again, I'm not a female though. Aren't females supposed to be the epitome of empathy?

I am not indifferent, or I would take no interest in any of these topics.
Discussing these topics is not a clear indicator of interest. Nor is it an indicator of the kind of interest you have in said discussion.

If I have come off callous then I apologize as that was not my intent. And quite honestly, you do not seem to approach this issue as if we are dealing with your "feelings" as you are seeking to get others to perceive your "persepctive" as valid.
Again, that's because of a host of background info that you do not have, but at this point I don't see that it is prudent nor beneficial for me to share it.

This the benefit of sharing information; not to be used against you, but to better assess and assist with the situation, if at all possible.

It is difficult to respond to you because you go back and forth between your personal views/experiences and those of the Black community as a whole.
I only do this, because #1) the 2 are not mutualy exclusive and #2) people here tend to dismiss it otherwise.

I believe that thread was about sex, as you continually reminded me and others of. You made sure to point out that it was an act independent of relationship and the emotions that may or may not be involved.
Yes, and you and others continually wanted to add other aspects into, despite the reminding. You could see how those other aspects factored into that discussion, yet not here? :confused:

And quite honestly, your area of concern on that topic was about your self-perceived lack of experience.
I don't understand why you can't see this being the same problem here, especially when your first question to me in this thread was:

If I may pry, what "tools" do you think you need?
Why aren't these threads being put together like the Lions of Voltron?

I can talk about sex as sex, and I can talk about relationships as relationships--both being independent of each other.........And I can discuss both in unison.

This is where I'm continuously saying that empathy comes in. Either you possess the ability to fathom what's going on, you don't.

I believe sympathy is what you are looking for, as it is impossible for me to empathise with what you are going through. With the little information you have about me, you do know that I am not male :). I do not want this to turn into a war of words, but my understanding is that empathy requires someone to be able to identify with another's situation.
Sympathy perhaps, but your definition of empathy is not quite correct.......
EMPATHY[/URL

And neither is your surmising that it's impossible to offer such. Sympathy cannot come without empathy.

Fair enough.



You don't know anything about me because you have not asked or are not paying attention.
I don't want to be forced to resort to labeling you as an "un-truth teller". I have asked you on numerous occasions about your background, up to and including this thread.

Again, I don't think my vital statistics (some of which I have shared btw) are terribly relevant here. I would think from some of my statements it is clear that I have been in a relationship before, how else would I have experience? I'm not 21 or 41, and I have shared some of my family life and other info with others on destee.com on an individual basis.
Others, but not me. Am I not your most frequent verbal colleague on here?

Saying "I'm not 21 or 41" doesn't tell me how old you are, even as I have asked more than once, yet you brazenly tell me that I have not asked.

:confused: :confused:

Again, you can view what I share however you would like. I was not seeking to be a shrink, but just contribute to a discussion.
Why? To what ends? What does "prying" get you? :confused:

PEACE
 

uplift19

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Mar 6, 2006
669
12
SAMURAI36 said:
I would agree, but I've seen you more than once, in more than one type of discussion omit information that was vital to my point in your quoting of my response, and then offer a response of your own as if that vital info was never given on my part to begin with.
How do I know if that info was recognized?
Because I read the entire post. Just because you did not get the desired response, does not mean it was not recognized.

Again, this point is extrapolated from a larger point that I'd made, that once again you've omitted, while still making a point against it.
How did I make a point against it? I was agreeing with you, but just stated that there are reasons present in society that may prevent everyone from seeing the immaturily you can so readily identify. I think this goes beyond how one is dressed.

How do you know? You said you don't live in the South, but you haven't said where you live (the only allusion you've made thus far, is Maryland). Do you live in a Metropolitan area? Do you know women from these areas?
Because you explicity stated this was your course of action, so I was assuming you saw this move as helping towards the solution to your problem and not a further hinderance to it. Yes, I live in a metropolitian area. Yes, the women I know are from these areas. How does this information help you in any way, especially considering I have already stated how few female friends I have (a bit of "background info" on me :fyi:)?

I don't seem to recall you doing this here. What organizations are those? How might someone such as myself, with my sort of issues, get in contact with these orgs?
I have already posted this information. I am not sure if the one group is still having meetings, etc. but some of the others focus on marriage. You may/may not find those resources valuable given your views on the institution of marriage.

You took pre-calc in the 6th grade, but since I don't know how long ago that was, I can't guage how relevant that is.
It is all irrelevant to this particular discussion, because it is about education and not relationships. I am not presently in the 6th grade, so it was obviously in the past. Either way, I was not in the "average" classes so my personal education does not represent the masses. Where I live, the educational system is in turmoil, so I know for a fact they are less prepared than I was.

Even more significant to me, is a comment made by an elder at a meeting I recently attended. She received her first degree in the early 1900's, and currently has her master's degree in education. Her assessment is that our community was better educated during segregation.

None of which leads to one perspective negating of another, as seems to persist here.
Acknowleding that I have my own perspective that is different from your own does not negate either.

OK, but the divorce rate is the result, and not the cause. People were cheating back then, men were consulting prositutes, etc. I think the answer lies not in why they didn't get divorced, but rather why they chose to stay.
I think those reaons are the same. Women in US society did not have the same opportunities back in the day as there are now. Economic security and the values of the society made divorce unpopular. All of that has changed now, especially in our community, as single-parent households are increasingly the norm. This makes the ideal family model of two married parents less important to many women who are having children now.

And so, you don't feel inclined to give me reason to take it seriously? Not even for the sake of discussion?
What would make you take me seriously at this point, save my entire life story? I am at a loss.

Just because I find it hard to take seriously, doesn't mean that I haven't been trying to.

So apparently I've been wasting my time then, giving you background abotu my situation.......Especially when you are only going to truncate it in your responses, and omit its validity.
I am not sure why you have such an issue with this, as I have already stated my reasons for doing so. If you think preventing a 2-page post by not reposting your entire response (which everyone can go back and see in its entirety btw) is "omiting its validity" then you are mistaken.

Such as.....?
Good communication, as I just mentioned.

I think you really underestimate the individual with whom you have been engaging in discussion here.
How so?

It's not about having an "advantage" per se, but I am definitely disadvantaged because I don't see how to put your perspectives within context. This is what leads me to not taking it seriously. Do you not see how this is connected?
What specifically will help you do this?

Besides, how is it that you can ask for access to all sorts of facets of my background, yet I am not free to do the same?
You are free to do what you wish, as you know.

I realize that I didn't have to answer your question, which led to the development of this discussion, but for the sake of discussion, I don't see why it was an issue not to.
Why what was an issue exactly?

But that is what you've been doing just the same.
If you think I am being critical so be it.

It would be for me, if I had access to more of your background. In having that, I would be able to quantify this for myself.
No it would not. Your question "how much" was very general, and may have been able to be answered with any degree of accuracy if it was more specific.

Same as you have been doing in regards to me.
I haven't been quantifying anything.

I'm sorry that this has been your experience, but that should not serve as a benchmark for what is supposed to take place. People expect others to share their perspectives, as well as the backgrounds that helps form them.

I'm a person that adheres to etymology, remember? Without knowing you, I need the source of your perspectives, in order to make their application more than an abstract concept.
This has been my experience in this very community. The source of my perspectives is my own life and experiences others have shared with me. I have stated this repeatedly.

What then, is the purpose of discussing any of this, in your view? Why ask if you could "pry" to begin with?
Because at the time I did not realize I wasn't being taken seriously...

Because that is the very foundation of what taking something as hypothetical is all about.

The crux of this thread, is "BROTHERS, ARE YOU READY FOR YOUR WOMAN?"
How does what your "personal experiences and that of others you know" factor into that, beyond being hypothetical?
Because I am talking about actual experiences that actually happened, not hypothetical situations.

I agree, but I also "believe" that a Sister should not address others in a certain way as well.
OK.

When, where?
In the last 60 days, in chat, via email, and in this very thread.

This is incorrect. Empathy is not synonymous with validation, even if the former leads to the latter.
I never said it was. For me, to empathize with someone means I can identify with what they are going through. For instance, I would never tell a woman who comes to me saying she has been raped or that they lost their mother at a young age (as a friend of mine did, to validate) that I empathize because I cannot begin to know what that feels like. Saying I do without having gone through it or something similar cheapens what they have experienced. I wouldn't dare say "I know how you feel" because I do not.

Yes, but again, I'm not a female though. Aren't females supposed to be the epitome of empathy?
So what behavior does your being male excuse? I don't know what you think females are supposed to be, quite honestly.

Discussing these topics is not a clear indicator of interest. Nor is it an indicator of the kind of interest you have in said discussion.
Well feel free to use that as a rule of thumb for me. I will not reply to a thread I am not interested in, which is why I did not weigh in on what type of clothing I prefer to see a man in while walking around the house. What are the "kinds" of interest?

Again, that's because of a host of background info that you do not have, but at this point I don't see that it is prudent nor beneficial for me to share it.
So be it.

This the benefit of sharing information; not to be used against you, but to better assess and assist with the situation, if at all possible.
Everyone's intentions are not the same.

I only do this, because #1) the 2 are not mutualy exclusive and #2) people here tend to dismiss it otherwise.
But it confuses the issue.

Yes, and you and others continually wanted to add other aspects into, despite the reminding. You could see how those other aspects factored into that discussion, yet not here? :confused:
So then why are you know adding emotions to that discussion and carrying them into this one?

I can talk about sex as sex, and I can talk about relationships as relationships--both being independent of each other.........And I can discuss both in unison. This is where I'm continuously saying that empathy comes in. Either you possess the ability to fathom what's going on, you don't.
...

Already addressed..

Call me what you will, whether it is an "un-truth" or not.

Others, but not me. Am I not your most frequent verbal colleague on here?
Not quite, you just have the longest posts. I also participate in chat, and further I have given information when asked for just FYI, not in the course of a "debate" where it is almost certain it will be miscontrued.

Saying "I'm not 21 or 41" doesn't tell me how old you are, even as I have asked more than once, yet you brazenly tell me that I have not asked.
Stating you do not have information is not the same as asking a question. I find it hard to believe that knowing what you do know so far, and being that you were unable to even give a public "thank you" in another discussion because of whatever it is you wanted to share personally, that you are so misunderstanding of this.

Why? To what ends? What does "prying" get you? :confused:
Good question. I do not know, but this is definately not what I had in mind. :bye:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
NyneElementz Black Relationships : Sisters: Brothers with Potential vs. Ready Made,Men - which do you really prefer and why? Black Relationships 3
Kemetstry Black Positive People : LEGALLY ARMED BROTHERS PATROL AREA WHERE ARBERY WAS KILLED Black People Doing Positive Things 1
OldSoul Black People : The Muse Brothers Black People Open Forum 2
OldSoul Black People : The Nicholas Brothers and Dorothy Dandridge - 3 Great Talents Black People Open Forum 1
OldSoul Black People : True Conviction - Some Extraordinary Brothers Black People Open Forum 3
Kemetstry Black Money Business Jobs : BROTHERS LAUNCH LUXURY CLOTHING BRAND Black Money Business Jobs 3
IFE Black People : BROTHERS’ KEEPERS AT A COST: BLACK WOMEN ON THE PROBLEM WITH REPORTING ONE OF OUR OWN Black People Open Forum 111
jamesfrmphilly Black Positive People : Bennett brothers win BET-shine-a-light-award Black People Doing Positive Things 0
IFE Black Positive People : Kid genius brothers, 11 and 14, graduate high school and college this weekend Black People Doing Positive Things 0
AACOOLDRE Brother AACOOLDRE : To the Brothers shooting Craps AACOOLDRE 0
jamesfrmphilly Health and Wellness : strong brothers dead from massive heart attacks? Black Health and Wellness 5
Al D Black People : The Soledad Brothers Black People Open Forum 0
IFE Black Positive People : Baltimore Big Brothers Program Sees 3,000 Percent Increase Black People Doing Positive Things 0
1poetsought Black Poetry : Brothers Keeper Black Poetry - Get Your Flow On! 3
Kemetstry Health and Wellness : YOUNG BROTHERS NEW INVENTION Black Health and Wellness 0
Kemetstry Black Positive People : BROTHERS CHANGING THE PARADIGM Black People Doing Positive Things 1
Kemetstry Black Entertainment : YOUNG BROTHERS LAND RECORD DEAL W SONY! Black Entertainment 8
Shems Nbedjer Black People : My brothers, don't try this at home!!!! Black People Open Forum 1
S Black People : Koch Brothers Exposed: 2014 Edition Black People Open Forum 0
GodofTomorrow Black Men : Black Brothers are Gods In the Making Black Men 9
cherryblossom Audio Video Web Conferencing : Jesus is Just Alright - Doobie Brothers Audio Video Web Conferencing 0
CosmicMessenger Audio Video Web Conferencing : The Williams Brothers - I'm Still Here Audio Video Web Conferencing 0
Ulysses E Taylor Black Short Stories : BROTHERS Short Stories - Authors - Writing 86
Alarm Clock Audio Video Web Conferencing : Summer Breeze, Isley Brothers Audio Video Web Conferencing 2
Alarm Clock Audio Video Web Conferencing : Happy Father's Day to the brothers at Destee! Song for My Father; Horace Silver Audio Video Web Conferencing 0
NecessaryChaos The Front Porch : Hello Brothers and Sisters The Front Porch 10
Asomfwaa Black Children : Brothers got hops . . .. Black Children 5
Keita Kenyatta Black People : Could This Be Why Some Chechens Think Tsarnaev Brothers Were Framed for Bombings? Black People Open Forum 29
cherryblossom Black Spirituality Religion : The Dhamma Brothers Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion 2
chuck Black Men : What Do We Ask Or Expect Of Our Young Black Brothers? Black Men 13
Keita Kenyatta Black People : These Brothers Are Crazy Up Here...and Now they Are in Jail...including the Camera Man!! Black People Open Forum 18
Kemetstry Audio Video Web Conferencing : STREETWAVE, BROTHERS JOHNSON Audio Video Web Conferencing 0
MsInterpret Beauty - Hair Care - Fashion : Bronner Brothers: Beauty Care is a Recession Proof Business Beauty - Black Hair Care - Fashion 1
A Audio Video Web Conferencing : Beautiful black Princess by White head brothers nice song Audio Video Web Conferencing 0
Destee Audio Video Web Conferencing : THE ISLEY BROTHERS - ITS YOUR THING Audio Video Web Conferencing 0
MsInterpret Audio Video Web Conferencing : The Brothers Johnson - Stomp! Audio Video Web Conferencing 0
Destee Beauty - Hair Care - Fashion : Who Employs Brothers With Long Dreads / Locks? Beauty - Black Hair Care - Fashion 12
cherryblossom Black Positive People : David McGhee: Big Brothers/Big Sisters Black People Doing Positive Things 1
$$RICH$$ Black Men : Strong brothers (rides by the dozen) Black Men 2
S Black People : Disturbing scene from Wayans Brothers "Scary Movie" Black People Open Forum 47
$$RICH$$ Black Men : Seeking Brothers/Ideals/Info and help ! Black Men 41
RAPTOR Audio Video Web Conferencing : The Doobie Brothers - Black Water Audio Video Web Conferencing 0
Keita Kenyatta Black People : Why Can't Brothers Just be Brothers? Black People Open Forum 7
S Black Poetry : My Brothers Black Poetry - Get Your Flow On! 3
Heartbeat Black Poetry : Brothers In Flight Black Poetry - Get Your Flow On! 1
info-moetry Audio Video Web Conferencing : Brothers gonna work it out Audio Video Web Conferencing 2
CeCe The Front Porch : Hello Sisters and Brothers The Front Porch 15
MsInterpret Audio Video Web Conferencing : destee.tv : ISLEY BROTHERS-WHO'S THAT LADY,LIVE 1974 Audio Video Web Conferencing 1
Ankhur Black People : destee.tv: Isley Brothers, Fight the Powers That Be Black People Open Forum 0
info-moetry Audio Video Web Conferencing : Isley Brothers feat. Angela Winbush - Float On Audio Video Web Conferencing 0
Similar threads


















































Destee Chat

Latest profile posts

We are in a new era. Those facts give us evidence we can reach the Melanin Tipping Point just by telling the truth. The Melanin Tipping Point is the point at which we go from healing to healed. Mchakato wa Uponyaji is the process of healing. Melanin Is Worth More Than Gold. That fact puts us in a different state mentally. It affects different people differently. What is certain is the Ubuntu paradigm is returning.
Melanin is worth more than gold. The Red, Black and Green is 100 years old. The Afric, official currency of the United States of Africa is worth over $2.
Shems Nbedjer wrote on Moon Child's profile.
Hello Moon Child, it's been a few years since we talked. Please let me know if you can do my chart for me, thank you. I'm in transition and really could help with some interpretations.
Change the world for the better, take care of it, because you live in it!
If the present Kuzma saw the then Kuzma, he would say: Boy, grit your teeth. In twenty years everything will be wrong!
Top