Good point were made in this Discussion on both sides and yes a man should never have a Big Issue allowing his wife tag along if it is just a drinking place. :grin:
atman said:IMHO cheating is an outdated idea. As human beings, we're naturally wired to be polyamorous. Heck, how do you think we've managed to survive on this planet and have the genetic diversity we have? It sure wasn't from everybody settling down with one mate, that's for sure. In an ideal world, we'd just be with whoemever we wanted whenever we wanted and leave it at that.
Of course, we don't live in an ideal world. We live here and now. In the here and now, ppl are territorial selfish ********. And their territory usually extends to your body (as you can probably tell by th number of ppl who have pissed all over any of us to mark their territory). This is a popular theme in western societies. Somebody owns everybody, we all get pissed on, and it rolls downhill like trickle down reagonomics. The feds own you and your income. Your boss owns you between 8-5. Your school owns you from 6-4. Your hubby / wife / parents own you the rest of the time. If you're unemployed the state owns you through welfare. If you're single you're waiting for someone else to own you.
My guess is that by having our supposedly monogamous relationships we can offset that lack of self ownership by exercising ownership over someone else. Kinda the same way that guys who gets reemed at work comes home and beats the wife & kids. It trickled down on him and then he trickled it down on them. Only monogamy is a helluva lot less painful for all involved. Well, usually, anyway. So if someone owns me then I'm gonna own someone else so I can relieve myself and feel less powerless.
All pointless. Not only does it defy our animal nature but it rarely really makes us feel any more secure, empowered, or relieved. Its as much of an illusion as the existence of tomorrow in a Zen koan is. But just try living any other way here or any other westernized country. Most polyamorous ppl eventually cave in to societal pressure to conform. But what does that lead to? They either cheat or they wind up in unfullfilling relationships and, in that, pissing on someone else in the process.
If we could get over our socialization and our own feelings of powerlessness maybe we wouldn't even be talking about what is or isn't cheating...
Radical Faith said:Yes going to the stripe club is cheating. Men cheat their wives, children and their community. First reason is because a man is openly pleasuring himself and fantasizing about the physical beauty of another woman. In wedding vows a man vowed to his wife, the state and his God to forsake all others. Secondly a man is cheating his family out of income that could go toward the betterment of his families situation. I can say these things because I was a regular strip club patron. I went before I married my wife while we were dating and engaged. My wife didn't stop me nor did she complain but she wasn't stupid either. I think about all the money I wasted. I bought drinks that were 5 to 6 times higher than they normally costed. I helped our sisters degrade themselves with lap dances and stage dances for dollars. I could have put that money to better use in the community since I had so much to give. Masterbation is cheating only when a person fantasizes about someone else. The drive for sex is strong, what if for medical reasons a wife couldn't have sex with her husband? To fantasize about other women is cheating, maybe not physically but these habits lead to problems in the marriage. A husband fantasizing about his wife is not cheating in fact it may spice up the marriage if a hubsband's wife knows he has that much sexual desire for her. She may be obliged to make fantasizes into reality. So the question one has to ask himself is, would I go somewhere I couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't take my wife and family or would I do things I couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't do in front of my wife? Men we have a lot of work to do.