Black Parenting : Black males, be men and be fathers to your children!

panafrica

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Aug 24, 2002
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The Diaspora
Brother Pan ... this is a separate discussion, that you've made specific comments within, that i'm addressing and you're avoiding.

Okay ... you can avoid my probing commentary regarding the positions you've demonstrated in this thread (and its Sister thread), by sending me to another thread.

Another vote i suppose for simultaneous stuff ... threads this time though ... okay.

You win ... you've wore me out! :)

Love You!

:heart:

Destee
I suspect you responded before I edited my post to add this:

Destee if you want to shame black men into taking care of their children....feel free. Shame to your hearts content, and know that you are in good company. There are no shortage of magazine articles, TV specials, radio shows, and internet forums devoted to shaming black men for not taking care of their children. President Obama dedicated his father's day speech during his campaign to shame black men into taking care of their kids....Black men are no good....Black Men, stop acting like BOYS and be MEN....black men this and black men that....Now let me ask you. How has that been working out? Shame is an ineffective tactic to get black men who aren't taking care of their kids to do so, because those who aren't taking care of their kids often can care less.

Now if you are talking about the other end of the coin. Black men who are taking care of their children...better yet those who take care of the children and their mothers (black men like myself). It is not shame which caused us to do so either, rather a sense of responsibility which was instilled in us when we ourselves were children. This responsibility is something our "deadbeat counterparts" lack, and in the majority of cases they lacked it before they got their baby mommas pregnant to begin with. Addressing men and women together is not a way to let one gender off the hook at the expense of there other. Quite the contrary, the only way to correct what is undeniably damaged within the majority of families in our communities is to address both men and women simultaneously.

If that doesn't sufficiently answer your question, then let me put it another way. I think "shaming" a deadbeat dad (Mookie as brother Kem calls them) for not taking care of their children is as productive and effective as trying to "shame" a Klansman for being racist! Now at the risk of repeating myself.....if you want to try another approach this situation, I've provided it:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62158
 

Destee

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I suspect you responded before I edited my post to add this:

Destee if you want to shame black men into taking care of their children....feel free. Shame to your hearts content, and know that you are in good company. There are no shortage of magazine articles, TV specials, radio shows, and internet forums devoted to shaming black men for not taking care of their children. President Obama dedicated his father's day speech during his campaign to shame black men into taking care of their kids....Black men are no good....Black Men, stop acting like BOYS and be MEN....black men this and black men that....Now let me ask you. How has that been working out? Shame is an ineffective tactic to get black men who aren't taking care of their kids to do so, because those who aren't taking care of their kids often can care less.

Now if you are talking about the other end of the coin. Black men who are taking care of their children...better yet those who take care of the children and their mothers (black men like myself). It is not shame which caused us to do so either, rather a sense of responsibility which was instilled in us when we ourselves were children. This responsibility is something our "deadbeat counterparts" lack, and in the majority of cases they lacked it before they got their baby mommas pregnant to begin with. Addressing men and women together is not a way to let one gender off the hook at the expense of there other. Quite the contrary, the only way to correct what is undeniably damaged within the majority of families in our communities is to address both men and women simultaneously.

If that doesn't sufficiently answer your question, then let me put it another way. I think "shaming" a deadbeat dad (Mookie as brother Kem calls them) for not taking care of their children is as productive and effective as trying to "shame" a Klansman for being racist! Now at the risk of repeating myself.....if you want to try another approach this situation, I've provided it:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62158

Brother Pan ... your addendum does not sufficiently cover the points i made, but i appreciate it nonetheless.

While you avoid my direct replies, by sending me to another thread, i'll address yours ... directly (as i have been doing all along).


Your First Paragraph and my direct response to it ============>>>


Destee if you want to shame black men into taking care of their children....feel free. Shame to your hearts content, and know that you are in good company. There are no shortage of magazine articles, TV specials, radio shows, and internet forums devoted to shaming black men for not taking care of their children. President Obama dedicated his father's day speech during his campaign to shame black men into taking care of their kids....Black men are no good....Black Men, stop acting like BOYS and be MEN....black men this and black men that....Now let me ask you. How has that been working out? Shame is an ineffective tactic to get black men who aren't taking care of their kids to do so, because those who aren't taking care of their kids often can care less.

I responded to your shame claim in a previous post (below in blue), which you never responded directly to. Now you bring me more shame talk, without ever addressing my previous response ... c'mon now ... this dog won't hunt long ... but i'm confident my previous response still stands, even with the addendum you've provided.


Brother Pan ... are you saying to even discuss, broach, the topic of the glaring failure of Black Fathers, means we're attempting to shame them into doing right ... and we should not do it?

First, i don't think Brother Black Squared is trying to shame them into doing the right thing. I don't think shaming them (even if one tried that), with a discussion about the great devastation they are causing to the Black Family, Black Children, and Black Community, will even move them. If their child growing up with all of the losses caused by their absence doesn't shame them to act, a discussion on a forum certainly won't do it. There are a multitude of great collective costs associated with Black Fathers not being present with their children, and absolutely none of that has shamed them into doing the right thing, but you think a discussion on a forum is going to do that?

If shaming them (as you call it) on a discussion forum, by talking about the reality of their actions, and how they impact the whole, would possibly move them to do better ... we should have done it years ago.

Brother Pan ... you ask, will shaming Brothers get them to do right?

And i ask ... what will get them to do right regarding the children they create?

Brother Pan ... it's almost like you want to protect these Brothers from any shame, while they choose to do shameful things.

Your Second Paragraph and my direct response to it ============>>>


Now if you are talking about the other end of the coin. Black men who are taking care of their children...better yet those who take care of the children and their mothers (black men like myself). It is not shame which caused us to do so either, rather a sense of responsibility which was instilled in us when we ourselves were children. This responsibility is something our "deadbeat counterparts" lack, and in the majority of cases they lacked it before they got their baby mommas pregnant to begin with. Addressing men and women together is not a way to let one gender off the hook at the expense of there other. Quite the contrary, the only way to correct what is undeniably damaged within the majority of families in our communities is to address both men and women simultaneously.
No, Fathers doing the right thing is not the topic of this discussion ... they aren't the problem (directly).

As it relates to the simultaneous talk you're talking, i responded directly to it previously (below in blue), proving (your text in red), that what you're saying (however flawed it may be), is not what you're doing.


Constant focus on irresponsible men who abandon their children does nothing to change this reality.
The woman's role in the number of single parent households in our community is often overlooked and it shouldn't be.

Another vote for never focusing on the irresponsible men, for you've determined it will change nothing, but the woman's role should not be overlooked.

Hmmmm ... what happened to the flawed simultaneous position you took earlier, for you did not apply it when you began critiquing Sisters ... i guess that's used only when Men are being critiqued ... not Sisters ... ahhh ... okay ... it doesn't apply to that thread, only this one ... my bad.

Your Third Paragraph and my direct response to it ============>>>


If that doesn't sufficiently answer your question, then let me put it another way. I think "shaming" a deadbeat dad (Mookie as brother Kem calls them) for not taking care of their children is as productive and effective as trying to "shame" a Klansman for being racist! Now at the risk of repeating myself.....if you want to try another approach this situation, I've provided it:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62158

I think I've received sufficient response, one that unfortunately solidifies my position ... yall can't take the heat ... you simply cannot honestly, objectively look at and address your own collective shortcomings. You can dish it out to Sisters, but you can't take it, and that's unfortunate .. a weakness even ... perhaps.

As i said before, your shame claim seems to be very hypocritical, for you have no problem doing it to Sisters, while at the same time, determining it will not work for Brothers ... and when i point that out to you ... that that is exactly what you did ... you wanna send me to a thread where you did not do that ... never addressing the fact that you did do it, right here, for all to see.

I think we've covered everything, as i'm only repeating myself now. Thank You!

:heart:

Destee
 

Chevron Dove

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I does my heart joy to know that you were touched by what I wrote. If you would like to read the rest you can click on the link I provided at the bottom of that thread.
Thank you!

I read it and will read it again. It was so informative and so well written.
 

Chevron Dove

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I do understand Sister Destee's comments, at least, I think I do.

This post is addressing the negativities of Black men as fathers and etc.

In my opinion, it's difficult to separate though, both roles. I think it goes back to government and the way we were conditioned in the beginning of this government.
 

Destee

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I do understand Sister Destee's comments, at least, I think I do.

This post is addressing the negativities of Black men as fathers and etc.

In my opinion, it's difficult to separate though, both roles. I think it goes back to government and the way we were conditioned in the beginning of this government.
It's only difficult because Brothers have a very hard time doing it, addressing their own individual and collective shortcomings directly.

It's so pervasive, it makes me wonder what it's really rooted in, as it is a very destructive behavior ... not being able to look at one's own self.

We can talk about everything else, all of our collective problems, independent of each other.

But when it comes to Brothers ... whew ... theirs can't be addressed alone ... they need someone (Sisters) to go down with them ... someone to blame.

Sisters don't have this problem. Sisters can discuss and address their collective shortcomings objectively.

Real Weird.

:heart:

Destee
 
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