Black Spirituality Religion : Battle of Beliefs

A007

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Sorry...

Phynx,

I hope you know that I think the world of you and respect the powerful woman that you are. And, I do understand what you are saying and WHY you are saying it. However, there are some things that are simply not the case.

1) We are not here for OURSELVES. So, anything that we do just for the sake of feeling good about ourselves is against the very nature of a human. We are here to love ONE ANOTHER. It is a western SELFISH construct that we should do what is best for ourselves and take that directive as the most important. The AFRICAN way has always been to do what is best for ALL WHOM ARE CONCERNED...that is the COMMUNITY.

2) This statement of yours "Belief in a lie that makes the believer feel good is more powerful than believing in a truth that make the believer angry. " is not true IMO. Again, I understand WHY you made it and what message you were trying to send but, there is NO WAY, IN NO TIME is a LIE better to believe than the TRUTH. Are you saying it is better for a CHRISTIAN KKK member to believe that we deserve to be wiped from the planet than to believe they came from us? Are you saying that it is better for an adult to believe in Santa Clause because it makes he/she feel better about the world? Are you saying it is better for fanatic Muslims to believe committing Jihad (because God will honor it) is better than them knowing that truth? There are SO many lies that people believe that make them FEEL GOOD but are HARMFUL to the world as a whole. Are we to leave them with their respective Lies just because we want to avoid DEBATE, PROOF, LOGIC, REASON, AND SOMETIMES THE UNCOMFORTABLE, UNFORTUNATE ARGUMENTS THAT ARE INEVITABLE? If that is what you are saying, then I STRONGLY AND FORCEFULLY DISAGREE! We should disperse the truth that is GOOD FOR THE WORLD not the individual feelings of the respective believers regardless of the resistance . There will be growing pains and lost love, but those are the necessary casualties of the WAR ON LIES i.e. path to ENLIGHTENMENT. If that is NOT what you are saying then your push to have us all get along so we can move towards a mutual goal of mental, physical, and financial freedom is understood but may get lost in the sea of LIES that all of us believe in. Case in point, every thing that I tried to become a part of that is not governmental, the Christians want to start with a word of Christian prayer. That is where many of us are lost.

Now this: Letting go of beliefs about ourselves, and others is the most difficult task at hand, and not everyone wants to make that change, and some cannot make the change without an external influence to activate DNA and heal genetic wounds. “This is why it's so difficult for many people to change their beliefs, because they can't find proof that contradicts their previous dysfunctional ones.” I agree with TOTALLY

And THIS:While the mission here is love, the focus is sometimes subjects that make us angry and our attention is sometimes directed to what is wrong. Or, the threads are religious and inflammatory rather than informative. I personally think that this forum would prosper without a Christian presence, only because there’s a church or two or three in every single community from British Columbia to Washington State, and from Prince Edward Island to Staten Island. So, if anyone is interested in the Christian perspective it is readily available complete with funding in every community, but what is not so readily available is knowledge from other sources that the same Christian churches find threatening. But that’s my personal opinion. Is fantastic!

So, finally, I think we are close to being on the same page, but some of us are more willing to deal with the confrontations that we are sure to incur with our quest for truth and our desire for our people to have truth also. I think we need both side...you and me...to reach the masses. And some of us like me need the temperance and wisdom that our beautiful and nurturing sisters have for us. I am truly thankful for you!

Peace and Love
 

Clyde C Coger Jr

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In the Spirit of Sankofa!

...Battle of Beliefs


I haven’t had much to say of late, as I have had a lot of changes in my own consciousness, and my perspectives, as well as noticing an energy shift on board Destee. I have made some conclusions that I wish to share.

It doesn’t really matter what someone chooses to believe, what matters is how those beliefs make them feel about themselves. Period. It doesn’t even matter if those beliefs are prejudiced, arrogant and uneducated. If our beliefs make us feel good about who we are, then success is ours. That is the bottom line and that is why there will never be a win or lose to the religion debate.

Too often when we are not whole, we distract ourselves with causes. There is no cause on this planet, that will take the place of individual healing; and there is no success in a cause that is made up of depleted energy from depleted individuals. If we want to feed the nations, we need to be feeding ourselves. If we want to build schools we better have some knowledge ourselves, and if we want peacefilled communities, we need to cultivate peace in our homes. If we desire political and economic change we have to work at getting involved with our local and state governments.
Lastly, if we want to really see CHANGE we need to TRUST in one another rather than believing in every conspiracy theory bent on separating our collective power.

I used to feel so inflamed by many racist, sexist and ignorant comments, or actions that I encountered. Finally one day I stopped. I just stopped giving away my precious energy to the realm of thought battles and decided to look at what was in my life and my life alone. And I experienced a surge of power, and it is that experience that I have come to share with you now.

As we know, it matters what you think of yourself, not what others think of you. Because our history and languages, and sources of pride were purposely destroyed or hidden some of us feel disconnected from a collective source of power and pride. Hence we look at systems like Christianity, Kemet, Islam, etc… and we gain a sense of pride from identifying our contributions to these systems.

I am no historian, but I’m willing to hypothesize that in reality Black skinned people were a part of all of these systems, and made large contributions to all of them. I’m also willing to bet that non-Blacks participated in building these systems as well.

The key to mental liberation in my opinion, is not whether these stories are true, but whether following them teaches you to manage your own energy, your own mind and feel good about who you are.


Let’s take the KJV Bible for a moment. Psalm 23:1. The Lord is My Shepard, I Shall Not Want. This passage, is used by Christians and Occultists alike in times of trouble. The only question that ought to be asked by the follower (borrower of script), is whether their faith in this meditation will allow them to feel good inside, so that the words will take root in their minds, plant seeds of abundance inside, and materialize outside.

For some Africans, Christianity no longer feels good, for many of us, Christianity feels negative. It evokes ancestral memories of rape, lynching, beatings, whippings, mutilations, cruelty and sacrifice. In short, Christianity has defiled itself and it’s symbols of power feel like a spiritual tyranny in need of being overthrown.
Hence, why there is difficulty in throwing our B.S (belief systems) in the faces of others without conscious awareness, and there is also karma attached to self-righteousness.

Many Africans awoke one day and said hey, I don’t like this message, it doesn’t make me feel empowered, or free, or equal, or worthy, and ultimately the message doesn’t make me feel divine. So, what have those Africans done? They’ve walked away from it and found new paradigms that they can identify good feelings with. For other Africans, Christianity is just the breath of fresh air that they need. Jesus feels good, Moses feels good and the Holy Trinity is a 1-2-3- feel good.

We are sometimes so afraid of being wrong that we won’t allow others to be right. Everyone wants to be happy, abundant and healthy. But some people, actually many people simply do not know how to wire their own minds in a way that manifests these pleasures in life. So, just like in school they borrow from the other students. We borrow bits of knowledge in our personal quest to have it all while we are living, to ascend into a heavenly paradise while in the flesh.

Let’s face it, what could possibly be better than having a whole spirit, body and mind, partaking of every healthy desire and being able to easily afford it all while surrounded by the elements of earth? (Okay, my own personal B.S emerging here)

I believe it is possible for a paradox to exist that allows someone to be historically accurate, but spiritually un-empowered. What I mean by that is this: the most powerful belief is the one that makes you feel the best you can feel about being who you are - it matters not whether that belief is a historical truth or a lie. Belief in a lie that makes the believer feel good is more powerful than believing in a truth that make the believer angry.

Uncovering our history ought to lead us into awareness of what we are and what we are capable of. This awareness can bring us to start asking questions, like how do I use my own brain and whatever resources available to me to embody that same greatness as those that came before me? And it doesn’t matter if your motivation is Soloman, or Imhotep, Sheba or Sarraounia. What matters is 1) having the motivation to create an achievable goal, and 2) staying focused long enough to attain the goal and 3) having faith based on your own personal stories of inspiration to believe in yourself and overcome obstacles and distractions.

In having the privilege of sharing time on Destee, I have a care-frontation to make to my many brothers and sisters; let go of beliefs that make you angry, sad, depressed and hateful. It’s not always easy, and you will have to replace these old beliefs with something beautiful and positive. You will also encounter the places where you feel you are deserving and this can feel like a brick wall sometimes.

Letting go of beliefs about ourselves, and others is the most difficult task at hand, and not everyone wants to make that change, and some cannot make the change without an external influence to activate DNA and heal genetic wounds. “This is why it's so difficult for many people to change their beliefs, because they can't find proof that contradicts their previous dysfunctional ones.”
http://www.auriccalibration.com/Articles.html

While the mission here is love, the focus is sometimes subjects that make us angry and our attention is sometimes directed to what is wrong. Or, the threads are religious and inflammatory rather than informative. I personally think that this forum would prosper without a Christian representation, only because there’s a church or two or three in every single community from British Columbia to Washington State, and from Prince Edward Island to Staten Island. So, if anyone is interested in the Christian perspective it is readily available complete with funding in every community. This is a simple supply and demand equation. What has a larger demand and smaller supply is free esoteric knowledge from outside of the mainstream church, hence there is a niche market that Destee has the potential to cater to.

Everyone of us is entitled to rant, rave and have a good old fashion beef session, but we must acknowledge that no two opposing energies can fill the same space. So if we spend our time loving ourselves we have no time to hate perceived enemies.
If we focus on developing a wealthy consciousness then we need not cultivate the axioms of poverty and lack.
I’m not here to lecture anyone, nor to stand in opposition to someone else’s presence. I too am finding my way amongst the cosmos, fulfilling my purpose which is love and I expect and believe that my message is delivered in the Spirit from which it was born.

Respect & Blessings




sister phynxofkmt,

So, you have noticed an energy shift on site also, very interesting phynxofkmt, and your thoughts on the matter are both insightful and encouraging, as well. Although all of what you state is on point, in my view the following really makes the point:

I am no historian, but I’m willing to hypothesize that in reality Black skinned people were a part of all of these systems, and made large contributions to all of them. I’m also willing to bet that non-Blacks participated in building these systems as well.

The key to mental liberation in my opinion, is not whether these stories are true, but whether following them teaches you to manage your own energy, your own mind and feel good about who you are.



Again, these two (2) salient points are found missing from the despondent argument, which argument indeed added to the silence you have witnessed of late.

Peace In my sister friend
, you presented and delivered a well thought out set of facts, for real.


 

phynxofkemet

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Phynx,

I hope you know that I think the world of you and respect the powerful woman that you are. And, I do understand what you are saying and WHY you are saying it. However, there are some things that are simply not the case.


See, now with an opening like that, you immediately set the stage for a loving and kind communication. I thank you for the honors you set before me and reciprocate them in kind.

1) We are not here for OURSELVES. So, anything that we do just for the sake of feeling good about ourselves is against the very nature of a human. We are here to love ONE ANOTHER. It is a western SELFISH construct that we should do what is best for ourselves and take that directive as the most important. The AFRICAN way has always been to do what is best for ALL WHOM ARE CONCERNED...that is the COMMUNITY.

Are we not all ONE? Can you give to someone else what you refuse the self? Therefore to love one another, we must love ourselves first.

If we take the African paradigm of God~Self~Family~Community, then we see that by loving ourselves first we are capable of extraordinary achievements. Even in the Christian tales, Moses knew he was a Hebrew and he loved himself enough to know that the oppression of people just like him was wrong, so in challenging the Pharaoh he was actually throwing off his own self-denial, a very selfish thing to do, because many people including children died. But today we appeal to Moses the Giver of the Law for justice and protection. Grandma Moses, or Harriet Tubman, my first inspiration as a youth, saved herself first. So, she knew it could be done, and she perfected the methodology of the underground railroad. See where I'm going.... you cannot give to others what you cannot or will not give to yourself.

What you speak of is HARMONY which is when our actions benefit ourselves as much as others. When African leaders of the past have fought for revolution they were first manifesting their divine purpose (which is for the Self) and then addressing issues that they themselves could speak to. For example Steve Biko was a powerful force during Apartheid and his passion was ignited because it spoke directly to the quality of his life, not the life of people he did not know. Once he chose to challenge those oppressive barriers he did so in harmony, keeping the community's interest aligned with his own. You must represent something that has benefit to the Self, this is what allows others to see you as a beacon for change.


2) This statement of yours "Belief in a lie that makes the believer feel good is more powerful than believing in a truth that make the believer angry. " is not true IMO.

I respect our rights to disagree and that's alright. You are calling me on this and I'll answer to it to the best of my abilities. Let me paint a scenario,

A dark skinned person walks into a retail store looking for a service or product. They encounter a sales person with a noticeable attitude, and they may even discern the underlying energy of racism. The sales person is rude and un-cooperative believing that as a person of no-color they are above or superior to this customer. The customer knows the truth, that they are the descendant of a great ancestry, so they react in anger and allow the wound of racism to be ripped open again. Their response re-inforces the lie within the mind of the sales person and they suddenly feel more "in control" of the situation because the dynamic they expect to encounter is fufilling it's prophesy. The sales person energetically feels powerful enough to continue denying service and respect to the customer and the customer in becoming angry loses power because he feels victimized and not in control to change the experience. The real loss happens in the psyche that is now ingrained with the expectation of being treated rudely and without respect by a phenotype of that salesperson. The psyche will draw to itself that scenario time and time again to reinforce what it believes. Therefore the lie wins and the truth loses because of the connection to the emotional energy.


Again, I understand WHY you made it and what message you were trying to send but, there is NO WAY, IN NO TIME is a LIE better to believe than the TRUTH. Are you saying it is better for a CHRISTIAN KKK member to believe that we deserve to be wiped from the planet than to believe they came from us? Are you saying that it is better for an adult to believe in Santa Clause because it makes he/she feel better about the world? Are you saying it is better for fanatic Muslims to believe committing Jihad (because God will honor it) is better than them knowing that truth? There are SO many lies that people believe that make them FEEL GOOD but are HARMFUL to the world as a whole. Are we to leave them with their respective Lies just because we want to avoid DEBATE, PROOF, LOGIC, REASON, AND SOMETIMES THE UNCOMFORTABLE, UNFORTUNATE ARGUMENTS THAT ARE INEVITABLE? If that is what you are saying, then I STRONGLY AND FORCEFULLY DISAGREE!

No, I did not say it was better to believe a lie, I am saying that it doesn't matter what you believe as long as your believes empower you to feel in control of your life. When you have some control over your life, you feel good about yourself.

Does it matter if you know the truth of the meaning behind life if you
a) can't pay the light bills or buy groceries?
b) if you live in a project housing where your life is constantly threatened squalor or miscreants?
c) if you don't know how to read and write so you cannot get a decent job?

Let's look at this carefully. Your first example is Christian KKK members. What would Black Nationalists have White people believe about themselves? Would we have them believe that they are backwards, cave people incapable of civilization? Do you think that at one time they did believe this, and very possibly their over zealous display of power has anything at all to do with an inferiority complex?
Even if they were to believe this, it would not create a shift in power. Non-white people would not suddenly inherit self-worth and self-esteem, nor would they feel good enough about themselves that a shift in power would manifest.

Next, taking your life in the name of Allah or anyone else actually does not feel good - literally. Blowing your self up is self-harm not self-love, so again my theory stands. Lastly, the Spirit is served by our understandings and our progress not by comparing ourselves to others.

If Christianity allows someone to respect their bodies, their families and their communities then they will be empowered with the feeling of respect and that if far more powerful than, a Five Percenter who believes that most of the world does not deserve his respect, and that forces abound all over that are out to destroy him. (Just an example) At the end of the day, the Five Percenter will have divided himself, and lost power. The Christian will see herself as connected to all things and gain power.



We should disperse the truth that is GOOD FOR THE WORLD not the individual feelings of the respective believers regardless of the resistance .

I agree that being an agent of truth is an honorable vocation - but realize that everyone is called to serve according to their capacity. We are not all created equal therefore we cannot possibly serve equally. What is really important though is not just the data, but the FEELINGS that data ignites.

When learning the truth about AFrican history, a man feels appreciated and respected, he will honor his companion, his family and build his community. When the truth is received by an AFrican womban and she feels capable of raising her children with love and kindness, and using her gifts than we are successful. When our children can reach out to other cultures as ambassadors of our communties because they are proud of who they are, then we are successful.

There will be growing pains and lost love, but those are the necessary casualties of the WAR ON LIES i.e. path to ENLIGHTENMENT.

If love is lost then the battle itself is lost. Love not war is the most powerful energy in the universe, it is the source from where we came, it is the essence of our creation. I would not lose one more brother or sister over a religious or political difference because we are that precious.

If that is NOT what you are saying then your push to have us all get along so we can move towards a mutual goal of mental, physical, and financial freedom is understood but may get lost in the sea of LIES that all of us believe in. Case in point, every thing that I tried to become a part of that is not governmental, the Christians want to start with a word of Christian prayer. That is where many of us are lost.


Do you believe that you must support their faith and pray with them, or that their being in control of the ceremony means that your truth is lost?


Now this: Letting go of beliefs about ourselves, and others is the most difficult task at hand, and not everyone wants to make that change, and some cannot make the change without an external influence to activate DNA and heal genetic wounds. “This is why it's so difficult for many people to change their beliefs, because they can't find proof that contradicts their previous dysfunctional ones.” I agree with TOTALLY

And THIS:While the mission here is love, the focus is sometimes subjects that make us angry and our attention is sometimes directed to what is wrong. Or, the threads are religious and inflammatory rather than informative. I personally think that this forum would prosper without a Christian presence, only because there’s a church or two or three in every single community from British Columbia to Washington State, and from Prince Edward Island to Staten Island. So, if anyone is interested in the Christian perspective it is readily available complete with funding in every community, but what is not so readily available is knowledge from other sources that the same Christian churches find threatening. But that’s my personal opinion. Is fantastic!

So, finally, I think we are close to being on the same page, but some of us are more willing to deal with the confrontations that we are sure to incur with our quest for truth and our desire for our people to have truth also. I think we need both side...you and me...to reach the masses. And some of us like me need the temperance and wisdom that our beautiful and nurturing sisters have for us. I am truly thankful for you!

Peace and Love
[/QUOTE]


Ultimately my statement boils down to this: if our truth is attached only to pain then it will not be received nor welcomes. If our truth is attached to love, respect and kindness, compassion it will continue to rise. What crushes truth to the ground is hatred and anger, so not matter how accurate the data, it takes the higher vibrational energies to keep it alive in the hearts and minds of people.

Thank you Brother A007 for taking the time to challenge me, and encourage me to examine my words, I am grateful for you too as so many of the brothers here know how to keep the love alive.
 

cherryblossom

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Feb 28, 2009
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Phnx, I truly enjoyed reading your thoughts/feelings on this subject. Your peaceful tone through a passive voice was encouraging and heartening to me that we, Black people, of different beliefs and backgrounds can achieve some constructive communication.

Moreover, I found your choosing the word "battle" to be interesting because I sincerely believe that we don't have to "fight" or have "hostile," "war-like" engagements with one another over religion.

However, Destee.com is a place which is open to all Black people who seek to positively interact with other Black people, and if some of them adhere to ideologies which are opposed by others, that should not be an irreparable, insurmountable chasm between us. This site is a microcosm of our greater "communities." So, if we can not learn to respect our differences while collaborating on a common goal, then, IMO, we are doomed in our divided state forever; and I just hate to even give that any credence.

In spite of your personal views (and those of others) on Christianity not being espoused here, it is still a belief system which is deeply entrenched in the Black community; and if any finds some other spiritual "truth" which serves them better, then that is fine with me.

I have no qualms with what others believe. But, IMO, vehement, combative, oppositional tirades and essays denigrating and demeaning Christianity is not constructive communication; and no video, outline or dissertation on the "evils" of Christianity is going to cause me to veer/sway from it nor from Destee.com.

This is not personally directed to you. I'm just responding to your very well spoken post. Your views were respectful yet very clear on your beliefs and personal viewpoints.

However, IMO, if we, as Black people, ever hope to "get along," we're going to have to find a way to surpass/bypass/transcend our religious differences so that we can then "BATTLE" common, destructive foes, within and without our communities.

Yes, many feel that Christianity is a "destructive foe," but we have other issues to address which need our more immediate attention, IMO,... matters which will prove just as difficult to counter.---- Economic empowerment, crime, drugs/alcohol, homeownership, the Black family, teen pregnancies, and education are just some of the areas we could be concentrating on instead of "whose God is better," IMO.

On Destee.com as well as offline, as a people, we not only need an "energy shift" but we also need to "shift our energies."

Every day, Black fathers and mothers and children are murdered in our own community streets; and the bullets which kill them don't ask which God they believe in.
 

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