Black People : GREEK SORORITIES AND FRATERNITIES

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by KWABENA, Mar 30, 2006.

  1. LovesDestiny

    LovesDestiny Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Don't apologize Kwabena. I appreciate your perspective and you make some very valid points. I will "attempt" to address some of them. First of all, I'm sorry that you have had such negative experiences with the fraternities/sororities. But I know that you are not the first (and not the last). Some of my very own friends (nongreek) have also shared the same concerns. I have had MANY discussions about this very subject.

    YES, you are right on point with sharing, mentoring and guiding at the Graduate level. Each campus greek organization has a Graduate Chapter assigned to "ensure" that policies and procedures are followed (supposedly to the letter). Unfortunately, in many and most cases, the Grad chapters may not be local which leaves a lot of room for "self-governing" on the undergrad chapters part. Believe me when I say that at the Graduate levels, once information of noncompliance comes to attention, immediate action is taken. I KNOW (not looking from the outside in) and have witnessed FIRSTHAND the detrimental affects of....hmmm...Ima just call a spade a spade...undergraduate greeks acting a darn fool!!! Good chapters being ripped from campuses because of an ignorant "few". It's a real shame! To answer your question, the truth of the matter is that some undergrads are going to listen, adhere and comply and some never will! But this goes back to the type, caliber, and quality of individual of people chosen to represent the organization in the first place. Sooooooo many times, individuals are chosen based on social aspects and characteristics. Undergrad chapters would rather have a large "line" than to spend time weeding out the possible troublemakers. This was an issue even on my campus and based on such my chapter had the stigmatism that we were picky and stuck up....darn right!!!! We had high standards (and I am speaking only to my particular chapter) and as President I wasn't having it...not under MY watch! But because of the choices we made back then our chapter is still alive and flourishing. We haven't had any cases, law suits, trouble or complaints whatsoever! I understand all too well, the challenges faced when nearing graduation! I've been there but it all boils down to leadership AND when the leadership is right from within in the first place, YES, the learning process for newcomers begins in the early stages of joining the organization.

    As you will note, I have never placed an emphasis on greek involvement. If you refer to the response I made up above to Sis daroc, I specifically stated that the goal is to involve yourself in things that will enhance you and others lives (greek or nongreek). But YES, greek life enhanced my life because I put in some reallllll work and I took away the positives. I believe leaders are made not born. You can't put someone in a leadership position that does not possess those qualities...just wont work. What I already possessed was only enhanced by my greek experience. Could I have gained the same being involved in a non-greek organization. OF COURSE and I did! Greek life was not the extent of my campus involvement.

    To answer your question that was never answered:
    “How does performing community service as a Greek separate me from doing so as a non-greek?”

    It does not!!!!! Plain and simple! You DO NOT have to be greek to make a difference!

    This will be my last response to this thread as I realize that this is not a subject that we will all ever "agree" on. But that's not really whats important in my mind. To me, the real issue is that we should be uniting instead of dividing. Me being greek and you being non-greek proves what exactly? Does this make me less of a sister to you? Or are you more pro-black because you are non-greek? Isn't it more important that I am making a difference somewhere, somehow? Or is the real discussion just an effort to discredit the greek organizations? I would appreciate an answer to that question.

    Again, thank you for leading this discussion Kwabena, it has been great and I hope the youth of Destee.com are gaining some insight (one way or the other).
     
  2. Each1teach1

    Each1teach1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Again this depends on the maturity level person you are dealing with. Many of these new school cats dont know what is secret and whats not. On the level of finding a local chapter, Ive lived in three cities and noproblem contacting anyone for info. It also sounds like you have a bit of animosity I dont understand why tho. Do you criticize other black orgs this way or just the greeks?
     
  3. Jahari Kavi

    Jahari Kavi Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    It's funny you bring up the point of these organizations being run by kids. A couple of years back there was an NAACP dinner that was slightly unorganized, and part of the reason was, because there were no elder members of the actual Houston chapter that pitched in and helped. I felt as if the people in the University organization worked hard to put it together (I even pitched in and sold some adds), but the local Houston chapter did little to nothing to help the on campus organization out.

    And you're right about change coming from within, but I don't know how easy it would be to change some of these frats and sororities that have certain traditions. I have a friend of mine who is Mason, and from the outside looking in it appears as if their main focus is helping out the community....it's because of that I'm interested in joining.
     
  4. KWABENA

    KWABENA STAFF STAFF

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    OK. Understood. Moving on.

    From what I seen, there was not much to read. Perhaps as a fellow greek, you can suggest that they make more information available the public.

    Although I stand clear on it being formed for study, support, and encouragement, why the greek identity?

    Are you saying that you endorse being fearful to speak out for what you know is right? Then I have to return to the question I stated previously: Why go greek instead of Afrikan? Why be ashamed to be proud of who and what you are, regardless of what those in white institutions felt about it? Maybe I a missing something- what ridicule and dangers did such a group of intellectual “African-American” (as they called themselves) face in the college environment? Further, times have changed, so that has little to no bearing on why greeks do what they do today. They went through all of that, just to turn around and work for their oppressors...rather than working to establish a “nation within a nation.” How much respect does a slave get for being whipped by massa, then turning around and voluntarily going back to join massa when given the chance to be free?

    Being that DuBois was also one of the people involved in pushing Margaret Sanger's Negro Project, I am not as respectful toward him. As the intellectual that he was, even he knew how tough it was – yet did not do what was in the best interest of his people. Not to mention – I no longer pay attention to such endeavors performed by him and other “champions” of the civil rights movement, because they are “worthless,” sayeth our actions today. In other words, our actions show how we feel about such people.

    ...So if they knew the “stuff” was african in origin, why go along with greek origins? I do not buy into applying the sphinx; enslavers of Morocco did the same exact thing. There are structures in America that prove that (e.g. Downtown Jacksonville). If such information as you stated above was worth knowing, why is it that greeks have not been pushing for it to be taught in African studies courses around the country?

    ...And you mean to tell me that greeks are not responsible for some of it? Instead of throwing parties, how about hosting Stop the Violence! Campaigns? I mean after all, it is about community involvement...is it not? The ancestors are not turning in their graves due to the fact that there is so much violence, as they are the fact that we have abandoned what they stood for, and decided to reform culture the way we did. Ignorance is no excuse – we as a collective know what needs to be done; we just do not want to do it. At least with this, I can boldly declare that greeks should not be singled out...we need to handle this, no matter what affiliation(s) we claim. If there was something put forth that had to do with rebuilding our communities for the youth's sake, I am all for it- even if I have to team up with greeks.

    From my experience, people have indeed joined for all the wrong reasons, but I also observed where greeks give them the wrong reasons. That may not be the case around the nation, but is certainly the case with who and what I have dealt with. I pay heavy attention to actions, and that is what most of my perspectives are based on. To be honest, I have seen so much mess that greeks have done around campuses – I just completely stopped remembering what they are supposed to be, and took them for who they are. I keep my eyes open, but it seldom changes. Perhaps a sit-down with greeks like yourself who do great things (if that is true) may alter my perspective. Until then, I can only go by experience, just like you are going by experience.

    LOL...if they are so secret, then why bring them up? Besides, I have actually been in connection with “people who know people” who have stated that is practiced as such “rituals.” Do I believe them? No! But I do keep my eyes open, and based on actions, it begins to confirm information I have been told.

    I think I have proven throughout this post where my stance is. I am not one to criticize...unless I find a reason to do so. I can not afford to bypass something so twisted, such as, for instance, claiming pro-African under a greek identity. I am pretty sure the same ancestors you spoke of earlier would be disappointed if they realized such a thing was occurring. I am a true enemy of greek culture and greek philosophy, being that I am well-informed of how such a culture relates to us. To my understanding we were never supposed to take on a greek identity, but the fact that we have been doing it for so long has changed that. It is like the old saying “if a lie is told so many times, eventually people begin to believe it is true.” I can not respect that one bit, I just can't.
    The fact that many of these new school cats don't know it should tell y'all something. They are representing you in one or another – you need to work with them and ensure that they do know. After all, they too will become leaders and influences to and for another generation, and the pattern will continue. No, it is not okay to leave them to do what they want to do, if they will wear your colors. If I wear a Destee t-shirt and and throw hate and discouragement left and right around the world, then the Family reserves the undisputed right to deal with me accordingly. For everyone to sit back and say “well he's young...he does not understand the significance yet” does not work.

    I will end here for now. I do not want to be against you, although I do want to further understand clearly what the establishment of greek frats/soros are about, especially as they pertain to us as a people.

    KWABENA
     
  5. KWABENA

    KWABENA STAFF STAFF

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    Sistah LD:

    Before I go any further, I want to address what you stated at the close of the post:

    We will not disagree on it, due to the fact that we have our different observations. For example, it is things like this, (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46088), that continue to make me questions the existence of greek organizations. Continue the greek culture, but then come back and claim it is pro-African.

    I agree that we should be uniting. However, how can we unite when we are striving to assimilate and conform to something that is not for us? Then wonder why the bulk of our people are so confused? Once something like this can be set straight, my perspectives toward us embracing the greek tradition will too be set straight.

    My sistah, I came from a school practically ran by black greeks...even with that in mind, I did my best to work with them. Moreover, you are my sistah no matter what colors you wear. I just have a problem with taking on something that is more against us than for us. It is no different than the fact that our bodies are not really designed for mass yeast consumption, yet we consume more pizza than many europeans do; with all due respect to myself and our culture, I have to question that.

    This has nothing to do with us being more or less of anything. That is not even close to my concern, although I do wish we as a people were more cognizant of what we chose to be involved in. Not everything is for us, although the Ameriklan culture preaches the paradox. Unfortunately, we have bought into that.

    Another point that I need to make before proceeding – joining groups, clubs, and organizations are good, but why do I have to do so just to be actively involved in the community? I should not have to join a group just to read to kids; I also should not have to join an organization to be respected by my peers. As I said before, much of this is based on actions. If I did not see such things on a normal basis, there would be no need for me to question its existence. The fact that I have sat and watched how some of the most mature and well-mannered young people joined greek orgs just to “fit in” surely does concern me. In addition, it also speaks volumes as to what to expect as time goes on. I may not be in agreement with BGLOs being all-good, but what I do know is time will tell. I will allow the future to tell whether they are good or bad. In the meantime, I perceive further knowledge of self to be the key necessity for us.

    Moving on-



    Well from what I have experienced, Grad-level chapters are moreso known to “sugar-coat” or circumvent what needs to be addressed, and go for getting more members and increasing popularity. Also, like many greeks do, they too feel as if they must have a certain reputation around a general crowd. They must be the ones who are worth fear and intimidation. It would be an oxymoron for me to describe them as role-models to a general crowd of students, seeing as how you are really nobody without the same colors they wear. In terms of body language, I have gotten the ugliest, worse messages from them and out of them. I mean why the need to fear? LOL – if you choose to be a part of a group, them do so, but don't carry yourself as if you are as great as someone who isn't. On my former campus, the messages are clear – if you are not a greek, you are nobody there! As I said earlier, their actions in conjunction with the future proves my point.

    There are indeed good and bad members, but you are all one, on the grand scale. I am sure there is some responsibility and accountability in that! The fact that only 2-3 people mess up is no excuse, because even I know everyone commits to looking out for one another in such orgs.

    Don't you think emphasis should be placed then on the “quality, caliber, and type” of people who decide to bring these people along? Once again – someone is responsible, and I can be sure it is not the newly admitted!

    I am glad to see that you are someone who does something great for your organization, and that means something. I only encourage you and your group to pass that on to others around and about.




    OK. Fairly understood. No comment.

    You're welcome, Sis!

    I do not want this to seem as if I am hateful toward anyone involved in the tradition. I am only afraid that we are involved and don't know what we are involved in.

    Last year, I had an experience where a sistah encouraged and convinced me to join NSBE. I never heard of such an organization before, so I was reluctant to join. I said I would find out more about it, then get back with them. Would you know that she got upset, and ceased speaking to me after that? Since then, I have made an absolute commitment to not join the group (or any other group with that outlook) because of how they conduct themselves as recruiters. I plan to do great things one day, and would like the involvement of others, but at the same time I will allow them to choose whether or not they get involved. If it is not for them, then oh well.

    In closing, I need to say that no young mind will fathom how much and how deeply I care about them. My actions speak volumes in comparison to any statement I make on here. Those who have dealt with me personally in the past know this, including greek members. When it comes to our youth, I have a strong desire to do what is best for them. If I really felt that I could “save the world” to protect their futures; I would. Heck – I live day-to-day for them! Then again, those are just words.

    Peace!

    KWABENA
     
  6. Jahari Kavi

    Jahari Kavi Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I'm sorry to keep bringing this topic back up, but this thread really got my attention a couple of weeks ago. I just found an interesting article defending "black greek" organizations.

    http://www.mochasuite.com/Stories/already_details.asp?ID=178

    The problems I have with this article are

    A.) It never really discusses anything relevant outside of the Marcus Garvey argument (which also might not be relevant). Calling people "ignoramuses" without bringing up any valid points doesn't sit well with me.

    B.) It brings up "Stolen Legacy" as one of the books people should read, but little does the author of this article know that George G.M. James calls out these same "black greek" organizations that the author is defending. And shortly after releasing the book he was "mysteriously" killed...

    C.) The point about the Nation of Islam and other black organizations being spelled using the english alphabet is ridiculous for a few reasons. First the people who started these organizations spoke english, and the masses they were trying to reach spoke english also. Secondly these organizations didn't call themselves "Black Englishmen", they embraced "African-centered" ideologies. They didn't use the english alphabet to "embrace" the english culture, they used it because it was the language that they already knew.

    D.) The author doesn't tackle "how" these organizations came about. I do know that some (if not all) of the original "black greek" organizations were assisted by white frats in the beginning.

    E.) The point about the greek letters being of African origin is true, but then we have to question why these organizations still refer to themselves as "black greeks" knowing that the "greeks" did take these ideas from Africans.



    Once again I'm not here to criticize every person on this website who pledge to these frats and sororities, but can anyone shed light on any of the points that I have brought up?
     
  7. KWABENA

    KWABENA STAFF STAFF

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    It's all good - I and others are always welcome to more information.

    I read the entire article. I would have had much more respect for the author if he had not concocted the article so badly. He started out well, but then ended up revealing his identity as a fellow BGLO member, and pounding those who endorse the viewpoints of Cokely and others. Whether he is right or not with his assertions, no need to get personal. Just display the facts and let that be. Unfortunately, I am afraid this poster failed to utilize that.

    KWABENA
     
  8. KingSango

    KingSango Banned MEMBER

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    All secret societies are designed as civilization maintenance and guardianship. So if they are Greek Fraternities and Sororities and the Europeans are saying all of their civilization descended from Greece then to Rome then to Britain then to America then they are worshiping Europeans as being the founders of civilization. No amount of trickery, deceitful words or terms or do good deeds or even outright lying can change this fact. The Boule houses and all the Prince Hall masons are traitors of Africa plain and simple. The fact that some of them are lower level and not privileged to the sadism that goes on in the secret rituals are not enough to deter the truth of their exposure as culprits to White Supremacy and Racism. And even if they are privileged or of higher rank do you think that any member would openly corroborate the information?

    Some of you Black people are downright stupid and the others are just plain evil. If you're not touting African civilization and then you have no idea of what the hell the struggle is about. There is a war on the planet and it's being going on for 2000 seasons. It's a war of civilizations and Europeans and barbaric civilizations have been waging war against Big Mama Africa and are winning the war. Untold amounts of Africans in diaspora are still held captive as slaves. The Europeans were smart enough to institute law with the threat of death, they made Africans learn European language, law, culture, religion and civilization and outlawed anything African. As a result descendents of Africans grew up knowing only European civilization and are brainwashed adherents to European strange ways. Some of you know this is the truth but your don't want to go against the grain because your minds are too lazy to learn your own Egun's civilization. Others of you are so degenerate from partaking in the sadistic rituals, blood rituals and cruelty that you have become outright traitors against Africa.

    Nothing can be done to save such a people who have become this lost. I'm afraid for the life of any man or woman who tries because the Boule and the Prince Hall masons will kill him or her. The poisoning of Booker T, the betrayal of Marcus Garvey, the murder of Noble Dre Ali, the murder of Malcolm X, the poisoning of Elijah Muhammad, the murder of Dr. Huey Newton, the murder of Martin Luther King jr, the murder of Tupac Shakur and Christopher Wallace aka Biggie was all carried out by Boule and Prince Hall Mason killers. The Boule and Prince Hall masons go against Grass Roots black leadership, they knock anyone down as illegitimate and unpolished when that one is not one of them and isn't apart of the grand plan to keep White Supremacy and Racism intact. You are still slaves who are under control by hidden forces. That is why many of you will never make it out of America because the master enslavers will always kill your leaders who try to free you. Instead of Whitemen doing the deed they have become wise in letting some of us do the gatekeeping.




     
  9. Orisons

    Orisons Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    WHAT A TRULY SUPERB POST!

    [QUOTE="KingSango, post: 871069, member: 40840" All secret societies are designed as civilization maintenance and guardianship.

    So if they are Greek Fraternities and Sororities and the Europeans are saying all of their civilization descended from Greece then to Rome then to Britain then to America then they are worshiping Europeans as being the founders of civilization.

    No amount of trickery, deceitful words or terms or do good deeds or even outright lying can change this fact. The Boule houses and all the Prince Hall masons are traitors to Africa and the peoples of African ethnicity plain and simple.

    The fact that some of them are lower level and not privileged to the sadism that goes on in the secret rituals are not enough to deter the truth of their exposure as culprits to White Supremacy and Racism.

    And even if they are privileged or of higher rank do you think that any member would openly corroborate the information?

    Some of you Black people are downright stupid and the others are just plain evil. If you're not touting African civilization and then you have no idea of what the hell the struggle is about.

    There is a war on the planet and it's being going on for 2000 seasons. It's a war of civilizations and Europeans and barbaric civilizations have been waging war against Big Mama Africa and are winning the war. Untold amounts of Africans in diaspora are still held captive as slaves.

    The Europeans were smart enough to institute law with the threat of death, they made Africans learn European language, law, culture, religion and civilization and outlawed anything African. As a result descendents of Africans grew up knowing only European civilization and are brainwashed adherents to European strange ways.

    Some of you know this is the truth but your don't want to go against the grain because your minds are too lazy to learn your own Egun's civilization. Others of you are so degenerate from partaking in the sadistic rituals, blood rituals and cruelty that you have become outright traitors against Africa and African people as standard.

    Nothing can be done to save such a people who have become this lost. I'm afraid for the life of any man or woman who tries because the Boule and the Prince Hall masons will kill him or her.

    The poisoning of Booker T, the betrayal of Marcus Garvey, the murder of Noble Dre Ali, the murder of Malcolm X, the poisoning of Elijah Muhammad, the murder of Dr. Huey Newton, the murder of Martin Luther King jr, the murder of Tupac Shakur and Christopher Wallace aka Biggie was all carried out by Boule and Prince Hall Mason killers.

    The Boule and Prince Hall masons go against Grass Roots black leadership, they knock anyone down as illegitimate and unpolished when that one is not one of them and isn't apart of the grand plan to keep White Supremacy and Racism intact.

    You are still slaves who are under control by hidden forces. That is why many of you will never make it out of America because the master enslavers will always kill your leaders who try to free you. Instead of Whitemen doing the deed they have become even wiser with regard to letting/programming the CLUELESS AUTOMATONS among us of us to do the gatekeeping/all their dirtiest work.






    [/QUOTE]

    Isn’t ANYONE who genuinely believes they are not programmed
    graphically illustrating that their programming is COMPLETE?
     
  10. Kemetstry

    Kemetstry going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Eddie Long is a member of a fraternity. Poor example

    :lol:




    .
     
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